Buy M8 now or wait ?

[1FSTRK]

Regarding plastic throttle bodies, they've been using plastic for almost the entire intake in the automotive world for some time now. I dont mind that. I DO mind that they seem to unable to help the owners  that are having the oil transfer issue.

Probably gets a tad warmer between the heads on a HD than on top of your water cooled car engine.  Not much airflow in there

[Jamie Long]

Probably gets a tad warmer between the heads on a HD than on top of your water cooled car engine.  Not much airflow in there

Negative, composite automotive manifolds are commonly subjected to much higher temps than a typical air cooled v twin, especially when used in turbocharged applications that see double or triple the intake charge temps of an H-D.

[ultraswede]

The heat soak temp the inlet manifold is subjected to is propably very high on a HD.
The water cooled car engine is around 90 deg C, the cyl head temp on a hot day on a HD is a lot higher.
Turn the engine off, and the heat soak begins.

As for carge air temp on a turbo car, if  the tep is abov 90 c, the intercooler is not doing a very good job.

[Bike31]

Sure, like aircraft engines that boil fuel and whatever after shutdown, air-cooled engines can do the same to components if their block temps exceed water-cooled units. Running temps involve intake air temp as a cooling or heating source. Once off the snakes crawl out.

[harleytuner]

The heat soak temp the inlet manifold is subjected to is propably very high on a HD.
The water cooled car engine is around 90 deg C, the cyl head temp on a hot day on a HD is a lot higher.
Turn the engine off, and the heat soak begins.

As for carge air temp on a turbo car, if  the tep is abov 90 c, the intercooler is not doing a very good job.

[Jamie Long]

Here is a good article on composites developed & used in automotive applications. While relative to H-D applications as we do not know the specific composition H-D is using, note the temps in this article. http://www.compositesworld.com/articles/high-temp-thermoplastics-higher-expectations

[Durwood]

Here is a good article on composites developed & used in automotive applications. While relative to H-D applications as we do not know the specific composition H-D is using, note the temps in this article. http://www.compositesworld.com/articles/high-temp-thermoplastics-higher-expectations

DSM Engineering Plastics is just a few miles from my shop, right here in Evansville.

[PoorUB]

Late model Ford F150's use plastic valve covers. I wonder how hot the head gears right above the exhaust ports?

[harleytuner]

It's all a moot point, there are reports of them warping regardless of the material used and temps.  in some cases the material HD is using isn't holding up on the bikes.  I deal with 3 dealers local to me (all owend by the same company) and all 3 are finding issues with them.

[rbabos]

It's all a moot point, there are reports of them warping regardless of the material used and temps.  in some cases the material HD is using isn't holding up on the bikes.  I deal with 3 dealers local to me (all owend by the same company) and all 3 are finding issues with them.

Real world facts beats advertising hype every time.
Ron

[Bike31]

It's all a moot point, there are reports of them warping regardless of the material used and temps.  in some cases the material HD is using isn't holding up on the bikes.  I deal with 3 dealers local to me (all owend by the same company) and all 3 are finding issues with them.

Where's the warping...loss of seal or impairment of moving parts? It'd be helpful to know so others can keep track of the problem areas.

[harleytuner]

It's all a moot point, there are reports of them warping regardless of the material used and temps.  in some cases the material HD is using isn't holding up on the bikes.  I deal with 3 dealers local to me (all owend by the same company) and all 3 are finding issues with them.

Where's the warping...loss of seal or impairment of moving parts? It'd be helpful to know so others can keep track of the problem areas.

Loss of seal.

[sfmichael]

ah yes...the trickle down effect from automotive technology to bikes   

for me the shitty engineering / R&D is a boon to my business   $$

I'm replacing plastic crap all the time...but think of all the weight and fuel savings 

[96349]

I'll tell you the same thing I always say - buy the newest, lowest mileage bike you can afford   

if it's got tits or tires, there's bound to be problems - but all things mechanical are fixable and we're all just blessed to be able to own and ride these turds no matter how nice they are   

For the most part I tend to agree with you but I (and others) would have to think at least twice about your laissez faire attitude when it comes to expecting the MOCO to do the right thing and "fix em". My experience with owning a good many of these "turds" as you call them over more decades than many on this thread have been alive has taught me that the MOCO has sold bikes over the years with severe engineering flaws in them and then glossed over that fact by not fixing them under their warranty. Their attitude many times is to not admit there is anything wrong. I don't want that to happen with this primary/transmission issue. If anybody asks me whether or not they should buy an M8 now I would have to tell them to wait and see how the MOCO handles the current issues. I have already bought mine and it has issues that have not been fixed yet after 15 weeks. The dealers clearly see the problem but they are powerless to do anything until the MOCO admits to the problem and offers up a fix. I am almost certain others would not agree with my position, but I expected the bike to not have any major problems when they sold it to me. I will give them an opportunity to fix their product but that is not an unlimited time frame.

[sfmichael]

I'll tell you the same thing I always say - buy the newest, lowest mileage bike you can afford   

if it's got tits or tires, there's bound to be problems - but all things mechanical are fixable and we're all just blessed to be able to own and ride these turds no matter how nice they are   

For the most part I tend to agree with you but I (and others) would have to think at least twice about your laissez faire attitude when it comes to expecting the MOCO to do the right thing and "fix em". My experience with owning a good many of these "turds" as you call them over more decades than many on this thread have been alive has taught me that the MOCO has sold bikes over the years with severe engineering flaws in them and then glossed over that fact by not fixing them under their warranty. Their attitude many times is to not admit there is anything wrong. I don't want that to happen with this primary/transmission issue. If anybody asks me whether or not they should buy an M8 now I would have to tell them to wait and see how the MOCO handles the current issues. I have already bought mine and it has issues that have not been fixed yet after 15 weeks. The dealers clearly see the problem but they are powerless to do anything until the MOCO admits to the problem and offers up a fix. I am almost certain others would not agree with my position, but I expected the bike to not have any major problems when they sold it to me. I will give them an opportunity to fix their product but that is not an unlimited time frame.

I hear ya...not laissez faire just a realist...and if the MOCO won't fix it I will. That being said I've stated here before, and still will, that I don't want the first year of ANYTHING. If I buy an M8 it will be in 2019 or so. I don't hold Harley to a higher standard than I would GM, Ford, or Whirlpool. The first year of anything with major revisions is usually rife with issues or problems.

Caveat Emptor

[hd06myway]

just talked to a friend last weekend who has a 2017 EG Ultra... loves it no issues... his wife's 2015 Fatboy had an engine problem, some gear seared off inside motor, the MOCO requested it be sent to them and they overnighted a brand new engine for her bike.  Reminder, forums are for bitching and problems.... but they are the minority in the real world.... the less than 1%'s... 

[hd02us]

Has anyone had a chance to ride a 2018 bike? Is the clutch engagement point the same?

[banjoman2255]

I had my 18 RGS delivered yesterday.  Rode it to work this morning.  It has the same clutch engagement as the 17 I test rode a few months back.  It's not that much different than my 14.  The clutch pull is lighter and engagement window is smaller.  I don't see why some folks are upset about the clutch, I feathered it just fine.

[biglew55]

I don't see why some folks are upset about the clutch, I feathered it just fine.

I thought the same thing when I test rode a 17 FLTRX and FLHTCU a few months ago.  While I wasn't "bowled over" with the new bikes, I definitely didn't have any issues with the new clutch, or any other aspect.

I have a 2015 FLHTK, and I would buy a 17 or 18 touring bike with no hesitation if something happened to my current ride, OR if I got a great deal on a new one.  But, I'm not in a rush to upgrade either.

Knowing my track record after saying things like that, I'll probably have a new one by Monday!...

[Hossamania]

I had my 18 RGS delivered yesterday.  Rode it to work this morning.  It has the same clutch engagement as the 17 I test rode a few months back.  It's not that much different than my 14.  The clutch pull is lighter and engagement window is smaller.  I don't see why some folks are upset about the clutch, I feathered it just fine.

For so.e people, they like the engagement further out. For me, I have small hands, so I tend to adjust my lever to engage closer to the handle. I ride friends' bikes, and don't always like their adjustment being out so far, and they don't like mine so close. That for me is the tough part of the hydraulic clutch, no adjustment.
Having said that, I haven't ridden the new bikes with the hydraulic clutch, so I have no input on that particular setup.

[banjoman2255]

Hoss the new clutch engagement is at the very end so you may not be a big fan.  I'm 6'2 with big hands so maybe I don't notice as much.

[Grayrider]

So, here we are, Sept 1 and the new models are out. New Softails all with 107 or 114 engines.
Are they still having the same problems or have they rectified them?
Have they fixed anything?
Was in the show room yesterday.
Blacked out Heritage , very little chrome,  pipes are plain, did not impress me.
Fatboy looks much better but a lot less on it. Fat tires and rims but no windshield, bags or highway lights. All optional. Another 3 grand if you want them.

[harleytuner]

2018 CVO stage I tune, transferred 10 0z. Of trans fluid

[Hossamania]

Fatboy looks much better but a lot less on it. Fat tires and rims but no windshield, bags or highway lights. All optional. Another 3 grand if you want them.

The Fatboy never had a shield, bags or passing lamps.

[hd02us]

Looking to purchase a 2018 FLHR. For those with a 2017 or new 2018 would you still buy your current bike or a low mileage 2016?