Preparing to refresh my first top-end, pics and questions

[SixShooter14]

Alright folks....what is this brown stuff? And is this module supposed to be glued in place with it?

[Ohio HD]

Yep, gets hot in those Evo cones. It could run forever, but I would replace it.

While yer in there......     


https://www.zippersperformance.com/dyna-2000i-ignition/

[hbkeith]

You know, for as much time and effort you are putting in to this, not to mention the bucks, a new cam is not a lot of money, and then you can just be done with trying to figure out how to build for now and later at the same time. Are you going to miss the extra few hundred dollars in three months, or sit and wonder why you didn't just do it in the first place?
You seem to be getting caught up in the incremental build process that happens too often, "I want to just get it freshened up, but I want to set it up for future improvements, but not hurt the performance I have now, but build it for later, but keep it the same for now......."
The part that kills is trying to set it up for two different goals with one action. It's tough to get that right. You have the opportunity right now to do it right.
Remember, I'm here to help spend your money! I'm just trying to keep you from going down two different roads at the same time but trying to make them work together, and drop be yourself nuts. Set your end goal, and go to that point.
Remember, stock sucks!

, pay now or pay more later

[rigidthumper]

Alright folks....what is this brown stuff? And is this module supposed to be glued in place with it?

Cam position sensor potting compound has melted, which means it's at/near it's lifespan.
The stand alone unit Mr Ohio suggests eliminates the stock CMP, and ignition module, and simplifies the wiring.

[jsachs1]

My memory must be bad- I thought EVO chambers were 76CC stock?

Average Evo 1340 stock D-shaped chamber heads are 83 - 84 cc. After valve and chamber work they gained several cc. Usually a clip of .0065" will remove 1 cc. on my mill. These were 1995 castings.
John

[Ohio HD]

 [attach=0]

[SixShooter14]

[attach=0,msg1336052]

Next you're gonna tell me to change out that breather gear as well 

[SixShooter14]

welp, won't be doing any wrenching this weekend. My mom wants me to come visit.

Anyway, here's the outer cam seal. I know the inner bearing needs changed for the Torrington, but is this outer one OK to reuse?

[Ohio HD]

No way. Always new seals. They get hot and brittle too. 

[Ohio HD]

Next you're gonna tell me to change out that breather gear as well 

While yer in there...........     


[attach=0]


https://www.sscycle.com/products/oil-pump-and-gears-kit-for-1992-99-hd-big-twins/

[JW113]

Aw heck, while you're in there....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultima-El-Bruto-Complete-Evolution-127-Black-Motor-Engine-Harley-Evo-Big-Twin/141902252426?epid=1623732185&hash=item210a08898a:g:FLkAAOSws3dceEAc



-JW

[SixShooter14]

Aw heck, while you're in there....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultima-El-Bruto-Complete-Evolution-127-Black-Motor-Engine-Harley-Evo-Big-Twin/141902252426?epid=1623732185&hash=item210a08898a:g:FLkAAOSws3dceEAc



-JW

See.....now that makes a lot of sense.

[Ohio HD]

 



[attach=0]






https://www.sscycle.com/products/v124-black-edition-engine-for-1984-99-carbureted-chassis/

[Ohio HD]

This will be the next thread Sixshooter14 starts.     



[attach=0,msg1336089]

[SixShooter14]

This will be the next thread Sixshooter14 starts.     



[attach=0,msg1336089]

Haha, maybe next winter.

[Pete_Vit]

This will be the next thread Sixshooter14 starts.     



[attach=0,msg1336089]

Haha, maybe next winter.

[SixShooter14]

No way. Always new seals. They get hot and brittle too.

Mmmk,

cam (and shim)
steel breather gear (and shim)
inner bearing
outer bushing and seal
ignition module


how about lifters? bike has 53k miles

[Ohio HD]

No way. Always new seals. They get hot and brittle too.

Mmmk,

cam (and shim)
steel breather gear (and shim)
inner bearing
outer bushing and seal
ignition module


how about lifters? bike has 53k miles

I wouldn't replace the outer bushing unless you know it to be worn. A new bushing "should" be sized from the right side case pinion bearing, or a fixture made for this.

https://www.zippersperformance.com/758-845/

Lifters, I would replace them at 53k since your there. 

[SixShooter14]

No way. Always new seals. They get hot and brittle too.

Mmmk,

cam (and shim)
steel breather gear (and shim)
inner bearing
outer bushing and seal
ignition module


how about lifters? bike has 53k miles

I wouldn't replace the outer bushing unless you know it to be worn. A new bushing "should" be sized from the right side case pinion bearing, or a fixture made for this.

https://www.zippersperformance.com/758-845/

Lifters, I would replace them at 53k since your there.

I see wfolarry sells lifters. Think I would need the slow leakdown or standard? I assume it wouldn't hurt to have the limiters in there?

[Ohio HD]

No way. Always new seals. They get hot and brittle too.

Mmmk,

cam (and shim)
steel breather gear (and shim)
inner bearing
outer bushing and seal
ignition module


how about lifters? bike has 53k miles

I wouldn't replace the outer bushing unless you know it to be worn. A new bushing "should" be sized from the right side case pinion bearing, or a fixture made for this.

https://www.zippersperformance.com/758-845/

Lifters, I would replace them at 53k since your there.

I see wfolarry sells lifters. Think I would need the slow leakdown or standard? I assume it wouldn't hurt to have the limiters in there?

Agree about the limiters, as long as adjustable push rods are used. An advantage to them when you do bump the compression. If a lifter bleeds down after the bike is parked, especially when hot, it can be more difficult to spin the motor over due to the intake valve now closing sooner, exhaust not opening soon enough (until the lifters pumps up). With limiters that can't happen. You adjust the limiters to only about two wrench flats off the bottom on a cold lifter. It can't then bleed down very much. You get some increase in lifter to limiter gap when the motor parts expend from heat. But not all that much to bother the limiters.

[SixShooter14]

No way. Always new seals. They get hot and brittle too.

Mmmk,

cam (and shim)
steel breather gear (and shim)
inner bearing
outer bushing and seal
ignition module


how about lifters? bike has 53k miles

I wouldn't replace the outer bushing unless you know it to be worn. A new bushing "should" be sized from the right side case pinion bearing, or a fixture made for this.

https://www.zippersperformance.com/758-845/

Lifters, I would replace them at 53k since your there.

I see wfolarry sells lifters. Think I would need the slow leakdown or standard? I assume it wouldn't hurt to have the limiters in there?

Agree about the limiters, as long as adjustable push rods are used. An advantage to them when you do bump the compression. If a lifter bleeds down after the bike is parked, especially when hot, it can be more difficult to spin the motor over due to the intake valve now closing sooner, exhaust not opening soon enough (until the lifters pumps up). With limiters that can't happen. You adjust the limiters to only about two wrench flats off the bottom on a cold lifter. It can't then bleed down very much. You get some increase in lifter to limiter gap when the motor parts expend from heat. But not all that much to bother the limiters.

So with the limiters, what's the purpose of the slow leak down versions of the lifters?

[Ohio HD]

No way. Always new seals. They get hot and brittle too.

Mmmk,

cam (and shim)
steel breather gear (and shim)
inner bearing
outer bushing and seal
ignition module


how about lifters? bike has 53k miles

I wouldn't replace the outer bushing unless you know it to be worn. A new bushing "should" be sized from the right side case pinion bearing, or a fixture made for this.

https://www.zippersperformance.com/758-845/

Lifters, I would replace them at 53k since your there.

I see wfolarry sells lifters. Think I would need the slow leakdown or standard? I assume it wouldn't hurt to have the limiters in there?

Agree about the limiters, as long as adjustable push rods are used. An advantage to them when you do bump the compression. If a lifter bleeds down after the bike is parked, especially when hot, it can be more difficult to spin the motor over due to the intake valve now closing sooner, exhaust not opening soon enough (until the lifters pumps up). With limiters that can't happen. You adjust the limiters to only about two wrench flats off the bottom on a cold lifter. It can't then bleed down very much. You get some increase in lifter to limiter gap when the motor parts expend from heat. But not all that much to bother the limiters.

So with the limiters, what's the purpose of the slow leak down versions of the lifters?

Best of both worlds.

[SixShooter14]

Yep, gets hot in those Evo cones. It could run forever, but I would replace it.

While yer in there......     


https://www.zippersperformance.com/dyna-2000i-ignition/

Is there any advantage for the dial types like the Hi-4N or Twin Tec rather than the switches on the 2000i? Just curious

[rigidthumper]

I know the DTT is programmable, so if you like/need to tinker with timing in just one spot, you can. In some others, you have to advance/retard the entire curve.

[rageglide]

Yep, gets hot in those Evo cones. It could run forever, but I would replace it.

While yer in there......     


https://www.zippersperformance.com/dyna-2000i-ignition/

Is there any advantage for the dial types like the Hi-4N or Twin Tec rather than the switches on the 2000i? Just curious

In my experience no advantage/disadvantage switch or pot style.  As rigidthumper said, some ignitions also allow you to program with a cable connected to your laptop.

You might consider replacing the pickup with an OEM 'dumb' style, then use an ignition that's mounted under the seat.  Given you had the one melt, putting all the electrics in the cone could result in a melted down ignition but it's more likely to start misfiring when you're stuck in stopped traffic on a hot day...

I have used both in cone and external ignitions and I haven't had a cone mounted one die, but I know of several failures.  The in cone ignition can be a pain in the ass to install depending on the design and wire routing and size.   In cone does clean up the wiring a bit and that is a nice benefit.   Stock pickup and a module under the seat is probably best long term.