disapointing again

[se]

i talked to my uncle and he says that he is done the tuner is well known in the area and says its the intake in the heads.he told my uncle he had to add alot of negative numbers to the intake part whatever that means im not even gonna guess buddys tune hes really spot on with tuning bikes. dynojet 250i. power commander tuning link and many classes plus years of experience. my uncles and  him trust each other. he told  them its in the intake of the heads so what do i do argue with a good tuner and engine builder. he uses steve at GMR alot. buddy builds very sound and extremely well running engines so im gonna guess he knows what hes saying. it really sucks being stuck in the middle

he is going to fax me the sheets this afternoon if anyone wants to post them for me??

If he uses GMR then he got the R&R heads. GMR uses R&R as  far as porting heads steve dont port heads dont know how. , GMR is a mail order shop he just went into business with some one and got a dyno and a new place. i hope your buddy didnt let Steve from GMR try tuning the bike steve cannot tune .
sorry to bash him but these are facts.

if the guy knows the problem why dont he fix it. first off the real good engine builders and tuners would of never left the piston in the hole.. they would of trimmed the bottom of the cylinders to acheive ZERO deck.
you cannot have consistent builds or even good ones until everything is corect. 
you need a good base to operate off of he probley pulled timing out because it was pinging.
if the guy knows the problem is in the intake of the heads then its the heads, there are a lot of real porters out ther who get great power from their products obviously the guy who ported those heads should re-do them
G

[FLTRI]

<<Also, if you can get the dyno sheet listed as a picture in your meesage then all can see it rather than only those who pay.>>

This is not VTF...this is HTT...you don't have to pay to see no stinkin dyno sheets!

Sean

OOOOPS, I have to admit I'm a bit embarassed.

[mayor]

Travis,  both sheets cam through but neither was read able.  try again and I'll let you know if they come through. 

elevation is less than 1,000 feet yeah its flat,lol!!!!

the cranking compression cold is 170-173 front to rear

176# is what I calculated based on elevation, so let's assume that what was measured is close enough. 

[metaliser]

This thread is so close to my deal it's not even funny, not trying to hijack this thread but I have HQ 0034's 95" BigBoyz heads KB flatops 9.5 comp, 81 hp and 93.5tq, the tuner said that he felt something was holding it back, I thought it might be the V&H's tru duals with rush mufflers, 2" baffles, I still have 8 degree injectors do your uncle, my bike seems to run better at 80% throttle or say 90 throttle than it does at wfo, might be the injectors, I don't know.

[GoFast.....]

<<Also, if you can get the dyno sheet listed as a picture in your meesage then all can see it rather than only those who pay.>>

This is not VTF...this is HTT...you don't have to pay to see no stinkin dyno sheets!

Sean

OOOOPS, I have to admit I'm a bit embarassed.

I never let those words form in my mouth let alone let my fingers type them

[OKLARACIN]

THE ELAVATION HERE IN OKC IS 1100 FEET.           HOWARD     VEE TWIN PERFORMANCE

[GoFast.....]

This thread is so close to my deal it's not even funny, not trying to hijack this thread but I have HQ 0034's 95" BigBoyz heads KB flatops 9.5 comp, 81 hp and 93.5tq, the tuner said that he felt something was holding it back, I thought it might be the V&H's tru duals with rush mufflers, 2" baffles, I still have 8 degree injectors do your uncle, my bike seems to run better at 80% throttle or say 90 throttle than it does at wfo, might be the injectors, I don't know.

you need a flow sheet from port people you can trust and those 34s need a lot more compression than that

[jvcazcm]

I am sure someone has checked this or you even asked yourself the question.  The TW37 cams are not high lift, however is there a chance just a small one that the intake and exhaust valves are not opening enough?  If you installed .030 gaskets and also installed new cams with less base dia wouldn't that cause the valves not to open enough.  The .030 would actually open them more, however if you installed adj pushrods that would have to be adj.  Now if you did install the .030 gaskets and no adj pushrods with the new base dia of the cams you would be hanging the valves open.  If you installed roller rockers they could also hold the intake valves open, the way I have checked them in the past is to take a compression tester and remove the gauge from the hose and take out the valve stem seal meaning the hose is free flowing.  Then install it in the spark plug hole and by mouth put pressure in it at TDC.  If you have any air excape you have a valve hanging open.  Yes you could do the same thing with a complete leak down check and all that stuff, however this is a quick way to check if you are opening too much. 

   Again I think it is something to do the valve geometerty.  Will be nice to find out what it really is.   Good luck

jvc

[mayor]

you need a flow sheet from port people you can trust and those 34s need a lot more compression than that

I don't know much about flow benches, but isn't it possible that velocity can be affected but flow numbers be in line?  I would also note that 9.5:1 is pretty close to 9:1 corrected with a 36 degree intake close. 

[Faast Ed]

well he has made his mind up they are coming off. 

As long as the heads are off, he ought to fix his deck height. No reason to run down the hole when cutting down the cylinders is not expensive.

[dsvracer]

Hi Guys,
I am dan vance, the porter of these heads. I have a money back guarantee, if you are not satisfied with my heads you can return them for a full refund,
"NO QUESTIONS ASKED".  I have offered this man a custom map for my motor combinations, but he will not even try it. I have also told him that my performance kits do not work well with big open exhaust like the thunder header, still no co-operation.  Put the heads in a box and return to me for a full refund. I know it's not the heads as I have well over 100 bikes out there with over 100 torque and hp. But if this man is not happy please send them back.  dan vance

[hotbo]

hey guys i put it together time was a issue so i didnt have the cylinders cut to 0 deck,again this is not gonna make this kinda hp lose.


the bike is not sumping period

mike i will re-fax this morning sorry.

some of you seem to be offended by this post or is it me :idea:i really could care less about who steve at gmr gets his stuff from ive never used him and probably never will doesnt mean i think hes bad,im sure hes a great guy :up:i was just stating that is who rpm cycles,buddy moore uses for his componets

i was wanting help maybe addressing the  issue and so far you guys have helped alot imo just like always,thank you all for the advice

yes it has adj.pushrods.yes they are adjusted correct,thanks guys ill try to re-send the sheets,travis

[hotbo]

Hi Guys,
I am dan vance, the porter of these heads. I have a money back guarantee, if you are not satisfied with my heads you can return them for a full refund,
"NO QUESTIONS ASKED".  I have offered this man a custom map for my motor combinations, but he will not even try it. I have also told him that my performance kits do not work well with big open exhaust like the thunder header, still no co-operation.  Put the heads in a box and return to me for a full refund. I know it's not the heads as I have well over 100 bikes out there with over 100 torque and hp. But if this man is not happy please send them back.  dan vance

hey dan yes you have been nice,thanks. what else do i do a custom map he has had several of those,hooked up to a dynojet250i with tuning link and buddy done alot of things trying to find the problem big open exh. not sure what this means they imo and alot of others are 1 of the ebst performing exh.out there so what exh.is gonna fix the problem if a 2-1 is not the key .sorry if you take offense to this and i have enjoyed dealing with you on and off the phone.you are making me sound like im impossible and that is not the case hes not happy and im trying to make him happy.maybe the tuner me and alot of guys im involved with that have been in bikes for alot longer than me no nothing of what they are talking about.thanks travis

[Faast Ed]

hey guys i put it together time was a issue so i didnt have the cylinders cut to 0 deck,again this is not gonna make this kinda hp lose.

I didn't mean to imply that was the problem.  I was just sayin' that it would be a good idea to correct it as long as the heads were coming off again.
Deck height counts.

[ICANTD55]

Did the dyno guy try to increase the back pressure with the tabs in the thunder header? 

[hotbo]

hey guys i put it together time was a issue so i didnt have the cylinders cut to 0 deck,again this is not gonna make this kinda hp lose.

I didn't mean to imply that was the problem.  I was just sayin' that it would be a good idea to correct it as long as the heads were coming off again.
Deck height counts.

yes ed i totally agree and it will be addressed this go around

hey guys im sorry if it sounds like im bashing anyone on here :wink:im in the middle i talked him into this and he is not happy at all.he is my family so that helps i feel bad for him and the porter.

he has made his mind up that its the product and nothing else,so what im i to do :idea:im not dumb or ignorant i have checked many other aspects as well as the tuner and a good engine guy.he listens to him alot.i mean this with the greatest respect to all engine builders and tuners around.


you all are great guys,with alot of great info.thanks for any and all help,travis

[hotbo]

Did the dyno guy try to increase the back pressure with the tabs in the thunder header? 

no he did not.it has a slight torque dip in the middle.i told my uncle to play with this but they felt no need to after the final numbers

[ICANTD55]

slight torque dip in the middle

No clutch slip?
Sorry I dont give up easy.

[GoFast.....]

Did the dyno guy try to increase the back pressure with the tabs in the thunder header? 

no he did not.it has a slight torque dip in the middle.i told my uncle to play with this but they felt no need to after the final numbers

Those numbers are so bad that afther you check the compression those heads need to come off. Travis If you were closer I would jump in
and help you. But Denver and the OZARK MOUNTIANS is a little longer than across towm. I think the compression test is so important. The question is do you tear it all the way down or just the heads. I think I would take the heads off and send them to a diffrent porter to check the flow on them first.

[Don D]

The compression is in line, motor health likely fine. Sumping not definenately ruled out. The tune not definenately ruled out. Linktune is no guarentee of sucess and was the map done in advanced mode, with individual cylinders probed and tuned with the AFR probe near the port?, fresh filter on the vacuum pump? Was timing changed or experimented with? These are all elements of a good tune and vitally important for mileage, driveability, and overall power and torque.
Flow sheets are not needed and the budget heads typically don't get sent from any supplier with them. Flow relationship is important! The head porter Vance in this case knows what works with his product. The customer needs to listen and not think of components as high value individually. This is about matching components that work well together. The Thunderheader is a good pipe and on on the short list that actually scavenges but that being said if the heads flow 90% Intake VS Exhaust you can be pulling fresh charge out during overlap. The 06up heads have a large exhaust port and even with the stock valve this can happen if precautions are not put in place, add a bigger exhaust valve and then this excentuates the issue.
My advice do not give up, listen to Vance. Consider bending the TH tabs, recheck for sumping, query the tuner about what I mentioned

[Don D]

Those numbers are so bad that afther .......

And what about those numbers, were they corrected for altitude?

[GoFast.....]

Those numbers are so bad that afther .......

And what about those numbers, were they corrected for altitude?

Well then forget the numbers and go out and do it the old fashion way. Go out and race someone else that has a healty 95" .My son drove by me with his WTHING like I accidently hit the kill switch instead of the troddle and my bike dynoed at 101tq. I Thought to myself I don't like that, I'm going to do something about that this winter without telling him

[FLTRI]

Until we see the graph and its curve along with AFR, there is a lot of assumptions as to the loss in power. The graph can help with diagnosis.

[Valley]

  Did you happen to check if the throttle blade is opening 100%? I get many through here that aren't adjusted correctly. Just another idea.

[metaliser]

Here again we are forgetting about the size of the injectors, he has the 8 degree as I do, my bike was actually built in 05 even though it's a 06 model, some say that the first 8 degree inj just were not anygood, others say that there fine, it's sorta funny that his bike and mine seem to be in the same boat, and my bike seems to run better if it's set rich,rather than lean, mine will ping like crazy if it's a little lean.