disapointing again

[hotbo]

i faxed the graphs again bob of i could post them i would the afr was straight as a arrow

i thank you all for the good info and question asking.

no not gear drive cams

well they checked for sumping on the dyno again got bout 1.5 ounces out thats not alot.

he has raced the old fashioned way, loses alot.not that funny really but to me,lol!!!hes not happy with it period i rode it last time turd

okay bending the tabs spending more money chasing #S that arent there.

okay well if i would have known ahead of time that the t-header was crap for these heads then i would not havae got my uncle to buy them!we like t-headers i think they are good performing pipes.hes not trying to win dyno shoot outs just wants a strong bike.

i have faxed the sheets to mike again if they are still to blurry im sorry.i dont know how else to post them i have no scanner



the ccc is pretty spot on in 1 of my previous post i told what it was.

help well im 5 hours away myself gofast im getting second hand data also.all i know is my uncles and the tuner think the problem will never be fixed unless the product is changed.

the tuner played with timing and some other stuff hell if i know i wasnt there just what im told,i have beat on him over the phone on things to check he says they did. oh well thats all i can do.

[GoFast.....]

i faxed the graphs again bob of i could post them i would the afr was straight as a arrow

i thank you all for the good info and question asking.

no not gear drive cams

well they checked for sumping on the dyno again got bout 1.5 ounces out thats not alot.

he has raced the old fashioned way, loses alot.not that funny really but to me,lol!!!hes not happy with it period i rode it last time turd

okay bending the tabs spending more money chasing #S that arent there.

okay well if i would have known ahead of time that the t-header was crap for these heads then i would not havae got my uncle to buy them!we like t-headers i think they are good performing pipes.hes not trying to win dyno shoot outs just wants a strong bike.

i have faxed the sheets to mike again if they are still to blurry im sorry.i dont know how else to post them i have no scanner



the ccc is pretty spot on in 1 of my previous post i told what it was.

help well im 5 hours away myself gofast im getting second hand data also.all i know is my uncles and the tuner think the problem will never be fixed unless the product is changed.

the tuner played with timing and some other stuff hell if i know i wasnt there just what im told,i have beat on him over the phone on things to check he says they did. oh well thats all i can do.

The thunder header is a great pipe and I just got done a couple of month

[FLTRI]

Since the AFR is straight as an arrow, what does the power do after 4000prms? Does it continue to climb, allbeit slowly, or does it take a dive?

[GoFast.....]

Did the dyno guy try to increase the back pressure with the tabs in the thunder header? 

no he did not.it has a slight torque dip in the middle.i told my uncle to play with this but they felt no need to after the final numbers

Fax it to me and I'LL POST IT 303-470-2823

[Bakon]

here is his bike

2006 deuce 95 inch
dan vance 1.90 ported heads
kb-flat tops
9.8-1
tw37bs cams
2-1 t-header
power commander
kuryakn high five a/c

Not alot there. A .510 lift cam, (not sure was bs on the end is) with pistons down the hole. What I am getting at is this is no radical build.

I had a .060 quench and when tightened to .035 picked up 8 hp and about the same torque. But I also went from .585 lift to .650 on the cam.

The numbers are low for internet, but maybe the numbers would be low anyways. What I'm saying is I have been watching guys post 100hp with .510 lift cams for years, but never saw a dyno in Pittsburgh give the same results. My bike consistently picked up 4 hp when run at a beach rally.

So lets say 4hp for area dynos being different, and 5 hp for the quench being off. Would he be happy then? Probably not, said bike was a dog, right? Well send heads back to be exchanged or refunded.

By not breathing does he mean it runs out a high rpm? Probably head/cam combo. Need air to pull away at the high end. Not being smart, but what numbers did he expect, mid 90's, 100, 105+? Its a 95 with stock reworked valves and a low lift cam set below 10:1 compression. I would think 95hp is reasonable.

[ederdelyi]

hotbo,
i know that you have checked the cam timing ... i'm assuming that means you verified the index marks line up, but have you actually degreed the cams? It would not be the first time that the lobe centers or the index marks are *wrong*!

No slam on any vendor intended ... $hit happens :>) I've caught this on more than a couple of cams. It could certainly account for the symptoms you've been experiencing. If this turns out to be the case Andrews will make good on the cams with no problems, IME.

[skyhook]

could it be a stingy or improperly calibrated dyno?...could it be that 50% of the dyno charts we see are inflated?...does it run good?...just sold wife's bike 96" street port heads 37 cam 9.8 comp fatcat 90/95 but compared to my 110 dyna it felt like a dog...you're describing a mild build on a machine that has more in common with a john deere than anything else sold today...jmho and I'm sure someone thinks it stinks!

[ederdelyi]

>>jmho and I'm sure someone thinks it stinks!<<

And so what if they do? It's an open forum and *all constructive* comments should be welcomed.

To tell the truth, I tend to stay out of these types of threads as they can turn into major peeing contests and get really ugly in a heartbeat. I break my own rules now and then ... and usually end up kicking myself for doing so! Ah well, ain't the Internet great? :>)

[ICANTD55]

Glad to see you posting Ed..

[Billy]

I sent a pair of KB 95" flat tops back to them about 6 months ago that measured .024" down the hole. I wonder if you got them.

[hotbo]

I sent a pair of KB 95" flat tops back to them about 6 months ago that measured .024" down the hole. I wonder if you got them.

no they weren't that  far,lol

no pissing contest here

okay the dyno graph imo are just a tuning tool,my uncle if the bike hauled ass would be happy but it doesnt.


on the graph it climbs okay till 5,000 rpm not a steep climb but okay.gofast ill fax them to ya,thanks travis


hell the cams might need to be degreed might be off ive had them off in auto engines ive built .

[mayor]

Travis, 
I just checked the faxes you sent me, no go again.  Try Barry tomorrow to see if he has better luck.  I still have your uncles last on if you want that posted to compare?

Mike

[Faast Ed]

I thought I remember some talk about the 37's having some changes done to them a while back (earlier or later intake close).

Reaching for straws here,....

[mayor]

yep Ed, was a 42 degree intake close.  The ccp seems to be inline with the 38 degree close though. 

[Don D]

Let's not forget the tw26 cams that guys were getting extraordinary compression readings from that were installed properly. When checked the cams were defective.

[dsvracer]

Dan vance here again. Travis you have been fun to work with. I understand your position completely so trust me when I say lets make your uncle very happy. PLEASE put the heads in a box and send them back to me. I will send you a set of stock untouched heads with low miles and a full refund for what you paid me for them. I am sure this is the best solution to this issue as everybody gets what they want. 

[mayor]

Hi Guys,
I am dan vance, the porter of these heads. I have a money back guarantee, if you are not satisfied with my heads you can return them for a full refund,
"NO QUESTIONS ASKED".  I have offered this man a custom map for my motor combinations, but he will not even try it. I have also told him that my performance kits do not work well with big open exhaust like the thunder header, still no co-operation.  Put the heads in a box and return to me for a full refund. I know it's not the heads as I have well over 100 bikes out there with over 100 torque and hp. But if this man is not happy please send them back.  dan vance

I think that the above statements speak for themselves Dan.    You can't do better to ensure customers are satisfied than a "no questions asked full refund".  

I'm going to throw out another new idea based on a personal experience I had earlier this year with the KB pistons.  I had a set of KB 95" pistons that were undersized (bore).  The pistons were allowing excessive blow-by around the rings and the bike was a real dog.  I also had a somewhat noticeable piston slap due to this.  how does the engine sound? was piston fit checked?

[skyhook]

ederdelyi,
hope ya didn't think I was directing my comments at ya...of all the folks I know on the net, you're...well ya know

[roadglide65]

Dan vance here again. Travis you have been fun to work with. I understand your position completely so trust me when I say lets make your uncle very happy. PLEASE put the heads in a box and send them back to me. I will send you a set of stock untouched heads with low miles and a full refund for what you paid me for them. I am sure this is the best solution to this issue as everybody gets what they want. 

After reading this thread you cant ask for more than that. Way to go and step up to the plate to make the customer happy

[ederdelyi]

skyhook,
No worries, I didn't think that at all.

All: My impression was that Mr. Vance has been acting in a standup manner the whole time even though I doubt  (and he most likely does as well) that the heads are the problem. Stuff like this just happens sometimes ... even to the best in the business. It would serve folks well to remember how the problem was resolved and not dwell on the problem itself ... know what I mean, Vern? :>)

It would not surprise me that when Mr. Vance gets the heads back and he did happen to find a problem with the heads  that would explain what was taking place here that he would own up to it ... I would it it were me.

[Don D]

I would agree totally ED
Been there before

[sean fxd]

<<Dan vance here again. Travis you have been fun to work with. I understand your position completely so trust me when I say lets make your uncle very happy. PLEASE put the heads in a box and send them back to me. I will send you a set of stock untouched heads with low miles and a full refund for what you paid me for them. I am sure this is the best solution to this issue as everybody gets what they want.>>

Like the other guys said....wow that is stand-up big time Mr. Vance.       

Sean

[sean fxd]

<<       Did you happen to check if the throttle blade is opening 100%? I get many through here that aren't adjusted correctly. Just another idea.>>


This is one that would explain a lot.  Have you checked this to make sure?  Sometimes the simplest things.

Sean

[se]

Talk to your uncle  Vance is going above and beyond take him up on his offer. you cannot ask for anything more. Very few guys and i mean very few would offer this.

[Faast Ed]

.... my performance kits do not work well with big open exhaust like the thunder header,....

May I ask what size exhaust valves are in these heads? Must be a reason they like restriction (could be handy for a guy who wants a quieter bike).