setting the CLB in TTS question

[mayor]

well, the wedding proceedings went through with no issues.  I just needed to tell the groom, where to find the bride.  My computer saved my com port selection from last night (com 2), so I was able to select the com 2 port as the portal...and everything went smooth from there. I could have done this last night....if I would have realized where to select the com port in th esoftware.     I saved my factory settings, and downloaded the new map to account for the mufflers and AC I added.  I rode the bike back to work, and it didn't hiccup or anything....so I must have done something right.   


does it affect the V-tune to do it in lower temperatures....say 40's-50'sF?

[Steve Cole]

No not really. There is temperature correction in the ECM from the factory.

[mayor]

thanks Steve.  That's good to hear, since our warmer days seem to be behind us for this season. 

[Steve Cole]

Just put on a bigger coat and at least the top half stays warm. You need anything else just give us a call.

[rbabos]

No not really. There is temperature correction in the ECM from the factory.
[/quote
Steve. Cold enough and the tune will reflect the extra drag from thicker oils in the engine and trans and drag from the thicker air temp just pushing the bike through it. I can tell you my bike don't run the same at a 60 degree temp drop as when it was tuned. Getting the head temp up is a feat in itself when it's that cold. Personally I'd try and stay within 20 degrees of what you normally drive in for tuning purposes. Your results may vary, but compensation ain't all that exacting from my experience since I tuned in the heat of the summer and it runs different now that it's colder up here.
Ron

[Dennis The Menace]

I've never seen much change in running due to temps.  100 degrees in summer, down to 7 degrees in winter, same tune, no difference really.  That is a 93 degree temp spread.  At altitude, of course.

Idling on a very hot day is another story (as it could be in the cold too, if the engine gets too hot).

But, this was without a TTS.  But, Steve answered that question already.

Dennis

[wurk_truk]

I still use serial cable instead of USB.  Never a big issue to get those going.  If you have a serial ported Laptop, try that.  Of course...  I still use XP on all laptops, too.

[mayor]

I still use serial cable instead of USB.  Never a big issue to get those going.  If you have a serial ported Laptop, try that.  Of course...  I still use XP on all laptops, too.

no worries...the nut behind the key board was loose.    I've since been able to connect, and have already done one v-tune run.   

[Steve Cole]

Thicker oil and cooler engine will all be reflected in the load on the engine. So what you will see is a change in the throttle position and the kPa. With those at a new position the ECM will adjust just as it should without issue provided those point have been previously calibrated. This is why when running Vtune it is important to get as many cells as you can filled in. For cold starting and the warmup part of it you may need to make those adjustments manually in Mastertune if necessary, but that's why those adjustments are there.

[FLTRI]

....Cold enough and the tune will reflect the extra drag from thicker oils in the engine and trans and drag from the thicker air temp just pushing the bike through it. I can tell you my bike don't run the same at a 60 degree temp drop as when it was tuned. Getting the head temp up is a feat in itself when it's that cold. Personally I'd try and stay within 20 degrees of what you normally drive in for tuning purposes. Your results may vary, but compensation ain't all that exacting from my experience since I tuned in the heat of the summer and it runs different now that it's colder up here.
Ron

This running issue is normally due to VE's too far out of calibration OR a bad/incorrect reading sensor(s) which will produce varying running quality.

For example, if the VE's in the lower tp/rpm are far enough out of actual, when temps and pressure changes occur, the system simply cannot compensate enough to keep things running well.

Ron, gotta say IMO/IME you seem to have way too many running variables to be tuned/calibrated correctly.

As I have mentioned to you, the data you sent me to look at is not a complete tune. If that data is what you solely used for v-tune, its not a big surprise run quality changes as conditions change.

Always willing to help and have asked you to call me to discuss and understand your run quality issues...to no avail,
Bob
PS - With some exhaust/intake/cam profile the tuner must understand what is going on and figure how to ignore and properly use v-tune data.
V-tune can only work when it sees "real" O2 data, unmolested by engine breathing anomalies.

[Blackbaggr]

So Mayor...did the butt dyno tell the difference from the base calibration to the refined version after V-tune ? 

[rbabos]

....Cold enough and the tune will reflect the extra drag from thicker oils in the engine and trans and drag from the thicker air temp just pushing the bike through it. I can tell you my bike don't run the same at a 60 degree temp drop as when it was tuned. Getting the head temp up is a feat in itself when it's that cold. Personally I'd try and stay within 20 degrees of what you normally drive in for tuning purposes. Your results may vary, but compensation ain't all that exacting from my experience since I tuned in the heat of the summer and it runs different now that it's colder up here.
Ron

This running issue is normally due to VE's too far out of calibration OR a bad/incorrect reading sensor(s) which will produce varying running quality.

For example, if the VE's in the lower tp/rpm are far enough out of actual, when temps and pressure changes occur, the system simply cannot compensate enough to keep things running well.

Ron, gotta say IMO/IME you seem to have way too many running variables to be tuned/calibrated correctly.

As I have mentioned to you, the data you sent me to look at is not a complete tune. If that data is what you solely used for v-tune, its not a big surprise run quality changes as conditions change.

Always willing to help and have asked you to call me to discuss and understand your run quality issues...to no avail,
Bob
PS - With some exhaust/intake/cam profile the tuner must understand what is going on and figure how to ignore and properly use v-tune data.
V-tune can only work when it sees "real" O2 data, unmolested by engine breathing anomalies.

Ageed with the ve's all fkd up. This is with the NI map. Recently tuned a PS cal and get this, the kpa's at all area were higher. Idle came in at 38 rather than 29-30 with the NI. This puts the light load areas that gave me problems with NI that wouldn't vtune in range now with the PC calibration since these areas were in the mid 30s. This cal also has a vtune spread between front and rear of only 6 at the most with many areas being equal, unlike the NI or NO ranging as much as 20+ in many areas. This will be the cal I will tweak a bit next spring, but for now I will finish with the existing calibration. Don't want to waste what remaining riding time I have left playing with the laptop at this stage.
Time don't stand still in my world, so I should have updated you so you can sleep better at night and not worry about my flakey tune. However if you want to ponder why the PS cal produces text book normal kpas and has ve numbers in the 70s, I'd like to hear the answer. Originally I ran the first vt at the same 130 ci as the NI, but the ve's were in the 60s. Dropped it to 120ci instead to give 70s average ve's. Tuned to the same timing as the NI that I edited for 91 octane.  It's looking like I could actually set this cal for the actual 113ci of my engine and it would still not come close to maxing. The one thing that stood out between the two cals is the PS makes the engine feel smoother, and the only explantion I have is more uniform fuel for each cyl. I will work this map more in the spring, but for now I'm all ears as to why this cal works well, and the intended one don't. No, my engine or O2 workings are not fkd, so pick another topic please.
Ron

[hrdtail78]

When the MAP sensor reads is built into the base cal. If you are reading abnormal kpa. Best thing to do is load different map and see if this fixes it. OR put a gauge on it with a resticter and see what it really is.  I remember this being discussed a couple months.

[mayor]

So Mayor...did the butt dyno tell the difference from the base calibration to the refined version after V-tune ? 

I don't know yet.    I wasn't too interested in trying it out the new generated map last night in the dark at 40 degrees, so waited until today to find out.  So far I only rode the bike 6 miles back to work after lunch.  I hope to do the second v-tune run tonight, so we'll see.  I noticed that my readings at 5k and up weren't quite long enough to get good readings....so tonight I need to see if I can really flog that thing     Here's last night's datamaster histogram:

looks like I'm hitting some of the higher up cells....just not enough.  ...last night was a learning experience, I'm going to try to do better tonight.  I didn't bang the rev limit last night....I will tonight though.   

so those purple boxes mean I maxed out the MAP in those cells? 

[Steve Cole]

You need to spend sometime in the 3000 and up range and it doesn't all need to be heavy throttle area. 5%- 40% area is the area I would worry about prior to the WOT areas. Most people run the bikes from 5-40% tps and 2000- 4500 RPM. The better you let that area get adjusted the ncer its going to ride.

The purple markers are to let you know that's as high as the data can be gotten from the ECM at a given RPM. You will find this occurs at less throttle the low the RPM is.

[rbabos]

When the MAP sensor reads is built into the base cal. If you are reading abnormal kpa. Best thing to do is load different map and see if this fixes it. OR put a gauge on it with a resticter and see what it really is.  I remember this being discussed a couple months.

Funny, nobody mentioned that calibration thing when a direct question was asked regarding my original problem with low kpa. Today it's common knowledge  . The PS176 was not even in the running as a calibration to use. The only way I discovered this was one day I decided to try a few quick loads and the first one that hand an idle I could work with  I'd pursue a vtune session with it. That's when I noticed the kind of kpa's everybody talks about. Thought something changed mechanically with the engine since I hadn't linked up for a while so threw the NI176 back in and checked the kpa and it was still it's normal low reading. I had to raise the iac points quite a bit to get a stable idle with the PC and from there the vtuning went quite well actually with practically even cylinder filling. Looks very promissing, but still have no idea why this cal could be more suitable than the ones that would normally be picked for this build.
Ron

[mayor]

You need to spend sometime in the 3000 and up range and it doesn't all need to be heavy throttle area. 5%- 40% area is the area I would worry about prior to the WOT areas. Most people run the bikes from 5-40% tps and 2000- 4500 RPM. The better you let that area get adjusted the ncer its going to ride.

The purple markers are to let you know that's as high as the data can be gotten from the ECM at a given RPM. You will find this occurs at less throttle the low the RPM is.

well, I think I did a little better tonight  :
 

how'd I do? 

[Steve Cole]

PM sent

[hotroadking]

unless you are running straight weight oil
wouldn't the 10W or 20W be the viscosity at
start up in the oil? 

Presuming the multi grade oil is doing it's job as
intended and you are not tuning in the Artic circle for runs
down the Ice Road all year the oil should perform it's
job as intended and not really be a big difference....

unless it's dyno oil LOL

[mayor]

I think I'm slowly improving my data collection with each run.  Here's the third datamaster histogram:


...and the map that the V-tune generated VE table looks like this:


I'm thinking that I might do some blending on the edges and call it good enough for now.  Good idea?   

[FLTRI]

Mayor,
Great v-tune job!! 

If everyone would "get it" like you have, there would be far fewer folks with issues with v-tune due to improper procedure.

How's it run???
Bob

[mayor]

oops...not so fast.  someone screwed up    I v-tuned map three with run 2....no wonder it looked so good.    Good thing I ran run 4.     I'm off to go for run 5 now. 

[hrdtail78]

I would spend a little time running the thing up in 4th or 5th to redline and snap it closed and let it engine break down to the lowest RPM it can stand.  This fill most of your 2% range and help with decel popping.

[DaleW]

does it spend enough time in those cells to collect data when doing that?

[hrdtail78]

I do it in 5th on the dyno.  There it does.  On the street, a long down hill would help.  Redline in 5th would be moving pretty fast for the street.  4th would be slower but the engine would decel faster.  The 2% cells he has gotton was done this way already.  2% with 3000rpm? Defintly not steady state.  So I guess to give you a straight answer.  I dont know, but The Mayor could tell us.