Tips on fine Tuning the DTT TCFI IId

[-SeabrookTrickBagger]

I never cease to learn something with this system.  I thought I would share this tip.

Alpha N Table ........ fuel mileage

In the Alpha N 0% TPS row (left to right), the numbers you put in after, say, 1750 rpms are important, too.  I did not think they were very important and I would not pay much attention to them so long as I was not getting a lot of deceleration exhaust popping.  For example, if my alpha n number in that 0% row at 1000 rpms was 29, I would just carry that 29 number to 7500 rpms without much thought.  I spent more time on the cells at 5% TPS and above since that is where you spend your time riding and the 29 number at 1000 to 1250 rpms worked fine for idle.  I noticed my gas mileage drop.  I put the Palm Pilot on the bike, went for a cruise, and looked at TPS, RPM and AFR signal (O2 sensor read) at 70 mph in top gear.  I was showing 13.5 to 13.8 AFR at cruise throttle position at that speed.  I should be getting 40 miles per gallon, but I was not.  Since I engine brake a whole lot, I noticed the AFR read-out was 10.5 to 11.5 when the throttle position was at 0%, decelerating, from 3000 rpms or even higher rpms and down shifting for engine braking.  That was the answer to my mileage problem.  The alpha n number above 1750 was the same as the alpha n number at idle.  Decelerating puts less "load" on the engine and it needs less fuel than when it is trying to idle -- or some other explanation with the same result:  too much fuel when decelerating  (the real explanation is that the amount of air entering the TB changes at higher rpms at the same throttle position).  The moral to the story is that decreasing the fuel supply while decelerating (0% row or maybe even the 5% row, high rpms) is a better idea and will result in better gas mileage.

The general rule, except for WOT where the alpha n number will follow the torque curve of the engine, is that the alpha n number in a row (left to right) will decrease with an increase in RPMs, and the alpha n numbers will always (except WOT) increase in a column (top to bottom) with an increase in TPS percentage.  This general rule will aid manual smoothing questions, too.

[-SeabrookTrickBagger]

Start Adder Table and humps in the TPSensor ....... Adjusting the Throttle Plate

If you need to increase your idle air volume and increasing the throttle plate clearance is not an option, then the IAC position can be increased by accessing the Start Adder Table (2d table).  An increase in the start adder table default numbers will increase the position of the IAC (which lets in more air).  I have seen the IAC move down at least 70 steps when going from cold engine temp to operating engine temp.  It may go down even more.  As the IAC number decreases, the idle air to the engine which passes through the IAC port decreases.  So, if you need to increase idle air, you can increase the IAC position with this table.  Remember to reset your TPS voltage to .4 volts after this adjustment to the IAC.

If you need more throttle plate air flow, set your TPS voltage to .4, then adjust your throttle plate while watching your TPS voltage in "TPS View".  You may notice that your throttle plate can be opened an additional .002" or so without changing the TPS voltage -- which is probably due to the fact the TPS sensor is not very sensitive or very linear.  In short, the TPS sensor seems to have "humps" in it which will not react to small changes in the throttle plate position.  If you are on the wrong side of the hump, so to speak, the TPS sensor can jump even with small throttle plate position changes.  It depends on where you find the "hump" in the TPS sensor.

[speedglide]

Awesome work!  Just wanted to let ya know there are a few of us using the DTT's and appreciate you taking the time to point out the in's and out's of the system!!!!
I have been running a DTT now for over a year on a mostly stock 88.  I tore the motor apart and had HQ give it a work over for me. I'm sure the tuning will be a bit more involved this time with all aftermarket parts!
Jason

[-SeabrookTrickBagger]

IAC Manual Override .......... starting problems

The IAC manual override is a valuable diagnostic tool.  If your engine will not start and you suspect or see that the IAC is too low or even too high, then use IAC manual override to move the IAC to where you want it and try to start it.  If it starts, then it gives you some idea of where the IAC needs to be to start the engine at the temperature you are having trouble with.  Usually, at 110C ET, the IAC should be at 30 or even as low as 25 for bigger engines/throttle bodies.  Generally, I find that even on a cold engine, if I put the IAC manual override to 35, it will start.  Of course, cold in Texas is not as cold as in Minnesota and that setting might be too low for northern climates.

Here is how you use IAC override.  Turn on the handle bar switch and then the tank switch.  Open the Log program.  Go to IAC Manual override.  Select the number you think will work having some idea of what your current IAC position is as a reference point.  Type in the number, don't do anything else except hit the start button on the bike.  If it starts ......... .  Be prepared for lean surge in that the motor could race up to 4000 rpms ....... be ready to shut it off.  When you turn off the handle bar switch or tank switch, the IAC manual override is lost.  If it did not start, try another number, using the process above, and see what happens.

If you find the right number, what do you do? Well, that is the subject of another post later, hopefully.  If you can't find a number that works, it might not be the IAC stepper motor.  It could be the TPS voltage or the throttle plate clearance or what is usually the case, a combination of problems from intake vacuum leak to broken throttle plate shaft to something much simpler.

When you type in a number, you should be able to hear the IAC motor respond and go to the correct spot before you hit the start button.  If you don't hear it move, then start over until you do hear it move.  This assumes you are putting in a number significantly different than the one the IAC is currently on in order to deflect the motor to an audible degree.

[-SeabrookTrickBagger]

Priming Pulses, flooding and fuel system check

Each time you hit the on button on the handlebar followed by turning on the tank switch, a priming pulse of fuel emits from the injectors.  If you want to see if the injectors are flowing fuel, at least a priming pulse, open the throttle to 100%, look in the manifold at both injectors, turn on the on switch at the handle bar, then the tank switch and you should see the fuel emit from each injector.  You are not starting the engine.  Do this often enough and the fuel will puddle in the manifold and skew the AFR reading, if not flood the engine, which can cause diagnostic confusion when trying to get a stubborn engine with starting problems to start.  This process will give a cursory check of several systems:  fuel pressure, injector wiring connections, injector flow etc..

[-SeabrookTrickBagger]

Zeros and ones .......... and 100, too.

In the BLM tables a 0 put in a particular cell will prevent two things from happening:  the system will not log data in that cell and the system will not tune that cell.  Putting a 1 on a cell, will allow data to be logged but no tuning will occur in that cell.

When do you use a 1?  When a cell is properly tuned and you want no further tuning in that cell.  When might you not want further tuning in a particular cell?  I find the primary reason to be that for one reason or another (such as fuel robbing in overlap cam timing or exhaust reversion events or exhaust over-scavenging events) a cell is hard to tune.  Once you get it tuned, it will tend to degrade due to events mentioned above or some other event.  Thereafter, continual application of the BLM to the Alpha N map merely causes the Alpha N map to post an incorrect number with a resulting degradation of the tune in that cell.  I find this to be especially true in the 2.5% or 5% rows just off idle.  Once you get that cell tuned, put a 1 in that cell in the BLM chart, save the the table, then upload it.  No further tuning of that cell will occur.  You can then allow the BLM to tune the other cells after which you apply the BLM to the Alpha N table without disturbing the alpha n number with the BLM application since a 1 is in that cell.

When do you use a 0?  One reason is when you want the same effect of the 1 mentioned above AND you don't need to log data such as an idle cell which consumes memory in the logged data, especially if you are idling the bike for a prolonged time period.

What does the 100 do?  In the BLM table, you can reset the entire table by hitting reset and all BLM adjustments are erased from the BLM table.  Schoeder calls this "normalizing the BLM table" and all the BLM cells will show 100.  You might do this when you ran the bike, discovered that your VSS number was off, so your speed was off which will skew the FI map, and you just want to start over so, you reset the entire BLM table to 100.  Alternatively, you can put 100 in any particular cell to wipe out the BLM data in that cell solely but leave the others intact for application to the Alpha N table.  So, insert 100 in that cell, then apply the BLM and the Alpha N is modified in every applicable cell except the cell you put the 100 in.

Generally speaking, the off idle performance will tend to degrade.  In other words, if you are at a stop sign and you take off normally, over time I find that repeated applications of the BLM will tend to make the cells used immediately when leaving the stop sign to become worse and worse.  So, put a 1 in that cell, save the table to buffer and upload it, once you have it tuned, future tuning will not occur in that cell, yet you will tune other cells not containing a 1 or 0 (or a 100) number with repeated application of the BLM.

[-SeabrookTrickBagger]

Closed loop or open loop?

Once the map is fully and accurately developed, I go to open loop.  Period.  Why?  The system operates better and is more responsive in my opinion.  It just runs better.  However, if significant changes in altitude (barometric changes) are expected, don't go to open loop since the DTT TCFI will take a barometric pressure reading each time the bike is turned on when in closed loop.  This barometric pressure reading will not be constantly done unless you check off Continual Barometric Pressure Update in Basic Parameters which you might want to do if you are riding, for example, the 11 Pass challenge in Colorado.  When in constant BP update, the update process is done every few seconds as opposed to only when you start the bike in closed loop with constant BP update turned off.

For the DTT TCFI system in open loop or with constant barometric pressure update deactivated, the fuel delivered will not, generally speaking, decrease at higher altitudes but the air density will decrease resulting in a bike running rich which is fine in my book.  The safer thing to do is to run the system in closed loop when significant barometric pressure changes will be encountered.  And, even safer than that is to activate constant B pressure update.  I did cruise all of New Mexico from the Pecos, Texas border to north of Taos, New Mexico riding altitudes in excess of 10,000 feet in open loop and I only experienced a rich condition which helped to prevent premature detonation concerns.

Finally, how often do riders have their bikes, either stock EFI or carbed bikes, tuned on a dyno?  Once, twice maybe three times?  Each time you are in closed loop you are tuning the bike.  You can do that a couple of times a year, assuming you did not modify the engine, and be well ahead of the game and at all other times run open loop.  If open loop does not improve performance and closed loop does not degrade performance, run it in closed loop.  Running the bike in open loop assumes you have a well developed map.

[-SeabrookTrickBagger]

A quick way to check IAC status.

If you have activated Automatic IAC update in Basic Parameters, after you have a few days of riding on the system, you can look at the number in the Automatic IAC update box.  If that number is not where you want it, say 25-30, you might have an IAC out of adjustment.  Keep in mind that the ideal IAC position, 30 for most engines, is measured at operating temp of the engine, which for Twin Cam engines (prior to 2007) is 110C to 120C.  As you increase engine temperature beyond operating temperature, the IAC continues to drop. So, if the Automatic IAC update number is very low, check your logged data to see what the IAC number is at 110C; it might be that the low number you see in the automatic iac update was merely due to excess engine temperatures. 

The "long" way to do this is:  check the logged data and view IAC and Engine Temp in the graph.  Look for "30" IAC at 110C, for most engines.

Finally, keep in mind the maxim which is applicable to TPS volts, IAC position and throttle blade position:  If I ain't broken, don't fix it.

[speedglide]

Excellent! Keep 'em coming! 

[-SeabrookTrickBagger]

AFR cells ........rpms ...... and bouncing AFR commands at idle

The AFR cells in the AFR 3d table work like this:  in the 500 RPM cell, in the 1000 RPM cell and the 1250 RPM cell at 0 Throttle Position, for example, the AFR number (AFR command) in each respective cell controls until 501 RPM, 1001 RPM and 1251 RPM respectively.  Assuming your bike is not idling above 1250 RPMs then do this:  you do not want a different AFR command number in the 1000 cell and the 1250 cell.  The reason is that if the bike is bouncing around in idle, say below 1000 RPMs and then above 1000, the AFR command will bounce around too if you have different AFR command numbers in the 1000 RPM cell and the 1250 cell.  If the AFR command in each of those cells is different, it makes it a bit harder for the BLM, if active, in those cells or the ECU in general to try and follow the bouncing AFR command "ball."   I believe the 1000 and 1250 cells at the 5% and 7.5% rows should also have the same AFR number.

[-SeabrookTrickBagger]

Setting idle speed

The ET Based Idle RPM 2d table "sets" the idle rpm.  If you want it to idle faster, increase the respective numbers and decrease the numbers to decrease idle rpm.  Other factors can "overpower" this table such as a fast idle caused by an excessively opened throttle plate, just to name one.   If your actual idle rpm is significantly above or below the command in this table, it is usually indicative of the throttle plate or IAC being out of its proper position.  However, each engine combo will have its own peculiar traits, so a significant deviation might not be problematic.  The "maxim" may apply here too.

In general, larger engines need a bit faster idle speed than stock sized engines.  As idle speed decreases, so can oil pressure and flow to the engine.  An 1100 rpm command setting for a 114 ci bike or larger usually works well.

[-SeabrookTrickBagger]

When not to apply the BLM

Let's say you have a few miles on your current tuning efforts with BLM activated/closed loop.  When looking at each of the two BLM 3d tables, you notice that one cylinder has greater  BLM activity than the other cylinder.  If the BLM values are fairly close to 100, say 95 or 105, on one cylinder, then consider not applying the BLM for that cylinder and only applying it for the other cylinder with the greater BLM activity.  You can verify your decision to not apply the BLM for that cylinder by looking at the Log Program, front or rear AFR and the RPM fields.  Does the AFR (actual) appear close enough for you?  If so, don't BLM that cylinder.  Ride the bike after this and see if the cylinders are closer together in terms of smoothness/balance and performance.  The point of this is that you don't have to apply the BLM tables for each cylinder just because one cylinder needs it.

[speedglide]

More! More! LOL!
Riddle me this!!
Explain the purpose of the front cylinder trim table?

[uglyDougly]

  >Explain the purpose of the front cylinder trim table?<

   Mind if I take a crack at the answer?

  The Main Fuel Table gives injector time values for both front and rear cylinder injectors at every throttle position and RPM.

  The front cylinder trim table takes the value from the main table at any given TP and RPM and either adds injector time to that value or subtracts some, or leaves it the same. This strategy supports different torque characteristics of the second cylinder without having a separate, unrelated fuel table.

  Magneti-Marelli has used this sort of strategy almost forever (that's 'forever' in the digital fuel injection era) except they have chosen to use the rear cylinder as the trimmed cylinder.

  The 'zero' value is 100 or 100% of the main table. 95 is 5% less and 105 is 5% more than the main fuel table value.

  Doug

[speedglide]

Thanks Doug!  I understood it's function as you explained it. But shouldn't it tune itself, no matter what the original injector setting is?  What if I leveled it out, at 100 in all cells?  What then?  The trim table and auto tune cancel each other in my simple mind...
Jason

[-SeabrookTrickBagger]

Let me add this to what Doug stated.  This is my understanding:  The system has one Alpha N table to control two cylinders.  Yet, the two cylinders act differently because of location (heat maybe) and the fact they are not perfectly matched in compression, stroke length (possible minor differences), deck height and general performance --- you get the point.  Therefore, the system adds a second way to adjust the second cylinder:  front trim table.  The alpha n table gives the broad adjustment to the second cylinder as well as the first (rear) cylinder.  Since the differences between the two cylinders should not be large, a trim table is used instead of a second alpha n table.  In short, balance without an expensive and unnecessarily complicated second alpha n table.  Personally, I would like to have a second alpha n table and then I come to my senses......

[-SeabrookTrickBagger]

Thanks Doug!  I understood it's function as you explained it. But shouldn't it tune itself, no matter what the original injector setting is?  What if I leveled it out, at 100 in all cells?  What then?  The trim table and auto tune cancel each other in my simple mind...
Jason

Let's see what Doug has to add.  In the meantime, keep in mind you have one alpha n table, so tuning is affecting and effecting both cylinders the same unless there is a single cylinder trim table.  If I see the depth of your question correctly, then what you suggest would work if you had two alpha n tables:  one for each cylinder. 

I have repeatedly as of late, put 100 in each cell of the front cylinder trim table with no detriment and overall success in balance and smoothness.  At present, I am trying to work the AFR tables, front and rear, in order to determine which cells in the 0%, 5% and 7.5% TPS rows are not used during acceleration but only during deceleration in order to increase the AFR command to something in the neighborhood of 13.9 or even higher to achieve better gas mileage while not creating more heat.

The reason I put 100 in each cell of the trim table was to get rid of the accumulated junk that had been put in that table during out of sync rides and other similar accumulations of junk.  After 100 is put in each cell, the trim table starts over and then adds new numbers to a clean slate.  Therefore, the 100 numbers don't stay there.  Remember: a 0 or a 1 prevents tuning; a 100 number does not prevent tuning.     ...... thought I would clarify that.

[-SeabrookTrickBagger]

Alpha N Table and Manual smoothing -- don't over do it

I have the most luck thinking of the Alpha N table as four separate tables.  One is idle.  Another is the unused cells. The other is the performance cells and the other is the deceleration cells.  Keep in mind that the idle cells do not only exist in the 0% TPS row, but also exist under the right conditions, in the 5% and 7% row too.  Also, keep in mind that unused cells exist not only to the left of the performance cells but to the right also.  For example, in all probability the 7000 rpm cell at 5% throttle position is probably not a deceleration or performance cell:  it is an unused cell (unless you shut down the throttle at 7000 rpms while under load which is fairly unlikely, more than once anyway).

Manual smoothing is beneficial.  But smoothing between these four "tables" within the alpha n table is over-doing it.  The best example is if you smooth the alpha n cell progressively in the 0% row (left to right), it will work, but a more aggressive plan will work better, say, above 1250 or maybe 1750 rpms since those are not acceleration, but are deceleration cells.  Linear and progressive smoothing outside of the performance cells is not aggressive enough to achieve/maintain performance AND achieve good fuel economy --- between shifts and when decelerating.  So, manually smooth within those four areas, but not between them.  Of course, determining which cells are within the four separate areas of that alpha n table is the key.  You should be able to determine that by the BLM readings following an aggressive move between the four theoretical tables:  If you miss the mark, the BLM will show significant activity which is PROBABLY an acceleration response.  But, it could be a deceleration response too.  Looking at the Log and correlating the actual throttle position should clear that up and define whether it is acceleration or deceleration.  Personally, I have not experienced a problem with a very high AFR reading/spike when I am decelerating even though the spikes are quite obvious when looking at the LOG data.  I think it has something to do with cylinder pressure.  Finally, I suspect that if I was using the bike on very long deceleration runs, maybe down a mountain, I would richen the deceleration mixture a bit.  But there are not many hills around here unless you find an overpass..........  .

[-SeabrookTrickBagger]

Marelli and Delphi TP Sensors

The Marelli throttle position sensor has a different transfer rate than the Delphi TP sensor.  So, they are not electrically interchangeable unless the transfer rate is adjusted which is done for you by Schroeder in the SnS VFI basic parameters since the SnS TB uses a Marelli TP sensor. 

[Airglider]

STB,

Keep em coming! I am also following this thread and learning from your experience.

I currently have a '04 Ultra w/ 95, 26G's and 9.5 ccr. I am only getting 35 mpg. I will soon go to the Woods 6G and shave heads to get 10:1 ccr. I am hopeful to be able to get better mileage when I start over with the base map and follow your tips.

One question I have is how to set the ideal timing tables. Do you have any tips here?

Thanks again for your insught.

AG

[uglyDougly]

  The last TCFI that I did was a TCFI III. MY other laptop is at home and it has the TCFI III software on it.
  Since you asked about the Front Cylinder trim table, if the numbers are all 100 it uses exactly the same injector time for both cylinders.
  But, on a 2-cyl. motorcycle the rear is never the same as the front (or vice versa) unless the inlets are separate and the exhausts are separate, then the only difference would be operating temperature. (with a little Correolis effect thrown in)

  Even the M-M bikes had the exhausts linked, so the previously described situation never came from the MoCo.
  Some of the OEM Evo cals didn't have rear trim maps but there were some of the non-stock Evo maps that did have trim maps.

  Am I rambling yet?

  The last TCFI previous to the III was in '05 while at Kuryakyn. I think that was a IID but not sure.
  Anyway, the auto-tune for the front cyl. was accomplished differently than the rear (Main fuel table.)  You turn off the auto-tune and save data to a data file instead. Then you call that data file up and ask the software to apply it to the front trim table.
  The only problem with that was that the software applied some cyl-to-cyl fuel stealing algorithm on top of the AFR corrections and some of the trim values could get a little wierd.
  Because of that, some of the Front Cylinder Trim tables get kinda wonky.
  The TCFI III does the auto-AFR adjust much better because is treats both cylinder tables as main fuel maps and the adjustments are more straight forward.

  I hope this helps because I'm not about to load the TCFI IID software. My laptops have so many tuning programs that they get bogged down.

  Please let me know if I'm obscuring the whole deal by counting on my memory. Then I'll just shut up.

  Doug

 

[-SeabrookTrickBagger]

Keep helping out Doug.  Always good to see your posts on this subject.  To help you remember:  the IId is the dual sensor ... that is what the "d" stands for "dual".  It "tunes" both cylinders at the same time without any "plug and unplug hassle."  The "II" had a single sensor, in essence, with a "run it on the back cylinder, unplug the cable and run it on the front cylinder" scenario.  PITA.  The DTT TCFI III is the unit I just tuned on the 124 rocket:  took three months of part time tuning with starting being the major problem.  But, three months was not that long considering no one could tune it for the prior three years.  Wish you were not so far north or Bob so far west.......... .

AG:

Timing is a risky proposition to do over the internet due to the many factors including load, ambient temp., humidity, as well as engine configuration since you can punch a hole in a piston, especially a hard hypereutectic piston like the KB, in a real hurry.  A lot of detonation is silent:  you have to pull the plugs and look for metal transfer.  A fellow on this site gave me a chart about timing a few years ago:  Mr. Sanderfer, I believe.  I use it as a guide.  Most of the considerations in that chart related to one thing:  flame travel.  What increases and what decreases the need for flame travel?  For example, properly place dual spark plugs reduce flame travel need (distance reduced) and therefore reduce the need for significant ignition advance.  You get the point. Compression, bore size, weight, quality of fuel (corn) on and on are also factors.  For example, generally speaking a 4.25" bore has more distance for the flame to travel than a smaller bore, therefore more advance is required.  Combustion chamber design is a big factor too.   

Kevin Turner of KT Cycles told me:  advance it until it pings and then back it down ...... he was smiling 'cause he knew I would not do that, nor would he, I suspect.  But, he made the point:  there is no formula, it is a bit of trial and error conservatively applied to a bike that is going to experience a wide range of environments, loads and uses.  For me, if I increase the power a bit and reduce the heat in the engine, I am on the right track with ignition advance.  However, my experience with adjusting ignition advance is limited to larger bore street engines with forged pistons and SnS heads.  Those engines, ultimately, are different animals especially in terms of toleration of excessive ignition advance.  Hope that sheds some light even if it is not very helpful.

[-SeabrookTrickBagger]

Thanks Doug!  I understood it's function as you explained it. But shouldn't it tune itself, no matter what the original injector setting is?  What if I leveled it out, at 100 in all cells?  What then?  The trim table and auto tune cancel each other in my simple mind...
Jason

I think I see what you mean now.  Here is the explanation:  putting 100 in the trim table cells "normalizes" them, i.e., zeros them out.  Tuning continues with 100 in the cells and it is a fresh tune without all the previous "junk" remaining in the front trim table.  So, they don't cancel out since 100 allows tuning while a 0 or a 1 in the cell prevents tuning ..... remember?

I modified my earlier post to add this clarification which your posts suggested was needed.

[speedglide]

Ok, I'll have to read all this again and see if it will sink in! LOL!
Here is another thought... if I clear the trim table, which is intended to address cross feed, could I possibly overdrive one injector if the front trim is not there to compensate for the cross feed?


NOW- about timing.. That is a subject that I still don't have a good tuning handle on.  I have a timing map provided by HQ for my 98" build.  It's on the conservative side.   I have yet to find a reliable method to tune the timing. 
As you mentioned, I could advance it until it pings, then pull 3-4 degrees.(not the best)  Or I could advance it, and do trial runs and check my data log, comparing time vs mph, contuning advancements until I see the speed decrease.  Or obviously I could put it on a dyno, but I don't have anyone in the area I trust.
Any other suggestions?

[uglyDougly]

  Thanks for getting my head straight STB.
  sg, I don't understand the use of the term 'overdrive'??

  With 100 in the trim tables the injector time will be the same for both injectors. If you need 15% more fuel on the front cylinder the whole trim map can be bumped to 115.
  The 2nd cylinder trim isn't only for inlet cross-feed because the Ducatis have separate inlets, it's that the rear has a different torque curve (therefore a different fuel table requirement) because of the odd-firing order and the interconnection of the exhaust pipes.

   About the ignition timing.

  That is precisely why I refer to the 'auto-tuning' systems as auto-AFR-adjusting systems.
  Timing is a big part of tuning and it isn't covered by the so-called 'auto-tuning' systems. (S&S has that now, but it is the 'advance to detonation and retard a few' system.)

  I can't shed any light on ignition tuning without a dyno, because I've spoiled myself by having one. Checking your torque is an imprtant part of ignition timing.

  I'll butt out of this thread after one more comment; The phenomenon that we're seeing here, particularly with STB, is that some of the people who are attracted to the 'auto-tuning' theme, are the ones who have, eventually, had to learned how to use them.

  Once you've reached that level, I hope you realize that you have taught yourself how to tune fuel injection systems. After that, you can tune any system because you now have the understanding of what it takes; data.

  One of the coolest things about the DTT product line is that they offer the ability to get that data.
  Now that you know how to use their products to see the AFR and associate it with an RPM and TP, you can apply that to any tuning system.

   Doug