TWIN POWER Lithium-Ion battery

[ThumperDeuce]

I have had the same All Balls 1.7 for over 8 years with no problems.  They are juice hogs.  My anti-gravity lithium really spools it up great.

[Karl H.]

Does anyone have Li-battery experience with more than 2 years of use?

Karl

[FXDBI]

Does anyone have Li-battery experience with more than 2 years of use?

Karl

Not on a Twin Power but.
Have 2 seasons on my 720amp anti gravity. 95in @210ccp S&S 585es. Stock starter and cables.
Starter spins the bike over hot or cold like its not there. Really couldn't believe the difference the big amp Li-battery made. Its been flawless bike sits 2 weeks with the security on and fires right up. Never run a tender on it. I have the recommended charger for it and even after sitting inside all winter it needed no charge in spring to put back in the bike. It wasn't cheap but to me it was money very well spent.  Bob

[Karl H.]

Thank you Bob! 

[gryphon]

I've been running my anti-gravity 600cca battery for a little over two years now. A couple days after I got it my grandson turned on my spotlights and nobody noticed until the voltage in the battery had dropped below 11 volts. Should have been garbage at that point but I bought the charger and gave it a try anyway. Well, it's over two years now and that battery is still working great. Not recommending anyone run their battery down like that, just sayin... It's starting a 120ci motor and has no trouble at all doing so.

[HD/Wrench]

I run ONLY hd starters. Mine is stock and stock cables .

ALL BALLS  Just had TWO right out the box fail . I know other guys love them Great they can have them HA HA  . But When they can make a starter last as long as the OEM I will take a look then. Thats not the first one to fail but just not worth it in my mind. And for the new bikes they do not offer a Higher KW starter that I am aware of .

[Buglet]

   I have a shorai in one bike 4 years and still going strong. Put a twin power in another during the summer we will see how that goes.

[Hossamania]

As far as starters go, I have the original starter in my '01 with over 100,000 miles on a hot 95" set up. Still works great. I did have some grinding problems on start up for years. Got a new battery this spring (not lithium) and that took care of the grinding, hot or cold. So a big endorsement for stock starters from me.

[pwmorris]

Been running lithium on multiple applications for over 7 years. Very happy with their advantages over lead.
Several members have dismissed or had doubts about lithium for the following reasons-

1.
"Too expensive"-(most are, but this Twin Power is pretty reasonable for the benefits).
2.
"Won't start in the cold"-(even though, all you have to do is warm it up in very frigid weather by turning on lights, or bumping the start button briefly before firing it. It gets MORE powerful after repeated starts, not LESS, like lead batteries do).
3.
"Don't care about the additional 10-20 lb weight savings, as I already have a heavy bagger and stuff my bags with all kinds of crap anyway"- (less weight is less weight, no matter from what point you start from. Benefits of less weight are better mileage, improved handling, and quicker throttle response).
4.
"My lead battery lasts much longer"-(seen the latest longevity results from the new HD/Dekas? My lithiums have lasted a long time, and always start my big inch engines without a sweat).
5.
"Not reliable"-(might want to do a search on how many guys who have been stranded (including myself in the past), by a dead/finished lead based battery, and we can then compare reliability.

Are they perfect? No, as they as still higher priced at the initial purchase, than lead.
I find it funny that almost all the people who dismiss this technology have never actually run a lithium battery. Crazy...

As far as starters, HD is very solid, and should be enough for most street HD's, but the ultimate starter is a Tech Tornado, http://techcycle.com/tornado-high-torque-gear-reduction-starters/
With a Spragg starter clutch gear.http://www.spraggusa.com/

I have run Tech, All Balls, HD, Spyke (both stock and a custom made Spyke for me), Compu-fire (which I think is same as Spyke) and even had one hand made from a local starter company.
Most times, it is the starter clutch that goes. 

[HD/Wrench]

Tried to twice before and after lunch , fired right off.  I will say that I was chasing a cold start issue with this bike. I tweaked and tweaked the starting set up with the 66 MM . And to be honest I thought it was a FBW issue as some times it would do ok other times it would crank kick back and cough if it sat off the tender for more than a few days . Nope the tune turned out to be fine it was just a cranking speed issue. We will see mid twenties tonight .. Thats cold for TX so I plan on starting it again tonight and then in the morning again to see how it does at a colder temp.

[04 SE Deuce]

Been running lithium on multiple applications for over 7 years. Very happy with their advantages over lead.
Several members have dismissed or had doubts about lithium for the following reasons-

1.
"Too expensive"-(most are, but this Twin Power is pretty reasonable for the benefits).
2.
"Won't start in the cold"-(even though, all you have to do is warm it up in very frigid weather by turning on lights, or bumping the start button briefly before firing it. It gets MORE powerful after repeated starts, not LESS, like lead batteries do).
3.
"Don't care about the additional 10-20 lb weight savings, as I already have a heavy bagger and stuff my bags with all kinds of crap anyway"- (less weight is less weight, no matter from what point you start from. Benefits of less weight are better mileage, improved handling, and quicker throttle response).
4.
"My lead battery lasts much longer"-(seen the latest longevity results from the new HD/Dekas? My lithiums have lasted a long time, and always start my big inch engines without a sweat).
5.
"Not reliable"-(might want to do a search on how many guys who have been stranded (including myself in the past), by a dead/finished lead based battery, and we can then compare reliability.

Are they perfect? No, as they as still higher priced at the initial purchase, than lead.
I find it funny that almost all the people who dismiss this technology have never actually run a lithium battery. Crazy...

As far as starters, HD is very solid, and should be enough for most street HD's, but the ultimate starter is a Tech Tornado, http://techcycle.com/tornado-high-torque-gear-reduction-starters/
With a Spragg starter clutch gear.http://www.spraggusa.com/

I have run Tech, All Balls, HD, Spyke (both stock and a custom made Spyke for me), Compu-fire (which I think is same as Spyke) and even had one hand made from a local starter company.
Most times, it is the starter clutch that goes.

Paul the only lithium battery I tried to caution people about was Shorai,  as my local multi-brand metric dealer cautioned they had issues with them not working well in singles/twins as far as cranking power.  Said they worked fine in 4 cylinder apps.

Also several on the Ducati forum echoed the same cranking issues and short life also.

Shorai rep. at Long Beach the year your bike was there said the same.

I mentioned this back when you were considering Shorai which IIRC you installed and have since removed the Shorai. 

Correct anything I got wrong.   

The one bike I would like to try a lithium in is my 916 but the Anti-gravity boys told me no go as the 916 has low charging (240 watt) output and the lithium batteries lack reserve...so not a good match.    -Rick

[pwmorris]

Rick,
Thanks for mentioning that as you are absolutely correct. I was referring to my antigravity batteries and forgot to discuss my foray with Shorai. Not good based on my experience. Simply didn't have the cranking power advertised, and not even close. I bought the top CCA model (500)then I even bought another since it was struggling, and ran two connected, and it started better, but no way in hell it cranked that much (1000 lol...). Might have worked with a stock application Harley, and my buddy did run a Shorai for 3 years on his VRod, with their charger on it every night, (which is why I wanted to try them out). I should have known better that his bike and mine were apples and oranges, especially before I ran EZ starts), but does the Vrod have some sort of C/R system? Also, the Vrod is only 1130 CC's, which is what, 70 something inches? Then again, I have tried and failed with all kinds of parts, and to me, it's the only way to know for sure-I only speak of things I have personally tested-good or bad...
Now, to be fair, they run a nice case, and their customer service was top notch as they gave me replacement batteries to try again, at no charge.

So yeah, been running Antigravity so long (16 cell, 20 cell, 24 cell, and for race applications, 2 20's, 2 24's and a 24 connected to their XPS V10 https://shop.antigravitybatteries.com/products/starter-batteries/extreme-power/v-10/
Hell, I even ran the 16 volt lithium (killer!, but won't work on a 12v HD system)

I forgot about that short time trying Shorai. Maybe I wanted to forget....lol......

[Jonny Cash]

Does anyone have Li-battery experience with more than 2 years of use?

Karl

I ran the Shorai in my KTM 950s for 3 years, only issue was below 40 degrees, had to turn the lights on for a minute to warm it up.

[jmorton10]

I have this battery in my 124" (HC with 640 EZ-starts) 2007 RK.

https://shop.antigravitybatteries.com/products/starter-batteries/extreme-power/atx20/

With Hooper cables and stock 2007 Harley starter it starts before I can get my thumb off the starter button.  99% of the time, it starts so fast I don't even hear it crank over.

I do have their dedicated charger for it and plug it in when parked in my unheated garage in upstate NY.  I started it recently when it was 22° in my garage & it started exactly the same.

I did have a weird thing happen once where I came out one morning about a year ago & the battery was totally 100% flat dead (it had not been on the charger).  I thought it was shot, but I plugged in the charger & 10 minutes later it fired right up & has been fine ever since.....

~John

[pwmorris]

I have this battery in my 124" (HC with 640 EZ-starts) 2007 RK.

https://shop.antigravitybatteries.com/products/starter-batteries/extreme-power/atx20/

With Hooper cables and stock 2007 Harley starter it starts before I can get my thumb off the starter button.  99% of the time, it starts so fast I don't even hear it crank over.

I do have their dedicated charger for it and plug it in when parked in my unheated garage in upstate NY.  I started it recently when it was 22° in my garage & it started exactly the same.

I did have a weird thing happen once where I came out one morning about a year ago & the battery was totally 100% flat dead (it had not been on the charger).  I thought it was shot, but I plugged in the charger & 10 minutes later it fired right up & has been fine ever since.....

~John

Thanks for the honest report on that beast of a battery. I haven't tried their top dog yet, the ATX20, but it's going in my bike when mine goes kaput.
Interesting about the cold weather-maybe their case design has improved to insulate it better..
I posted that battery a while back when it came out and got some interesting responses...lol...
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,89896.msg1031358.html#msg1031358

[ThumperDeuce]

I put the ATX-20 in my scoot this last summer.  It really spools up the engine.  I upgraded from the YTX12-24 and the one thing that kind of surprised me was that it was a bit wider.  No big deal, just be aware in case you have to play around with your cables.

[pwmorris]

I put the ATX-20 in my scoot this last summer.  It really spools up the engine.  I upgraded from the YTX12-24 and the one thing that kind of surprised me was that it was a bit wider.  No big deal, just be aware in case you have to play around with your cables.

[Deye76]

Is there any truth to the ion not being as safe as the iron? I'm thinking of going lithium in my FXR and want to choose wisely.

[Karl H.]

As stated before any Li battery is a Li-Ion battery. Li-Ion batteries with a LiFePo electrode are sometimes called Li-Iron (Fe=Iron) but could also be called Li-Ion-Iron. The LiFePo chemistry is one of the safest Li-Ion chemistry you can get. It is far safer than the LiCoO2 chemistry which is also Li-Ion.

Karl

[HD/Wrench]

I thought I would update this so I started on Dec 8th with this batter. So 33 days later without charging the batter, and only starting the bike up. ( so no idle just crank it and once it fired I shut it off. )  It rolled over very slow today and it did fire but just barley and I had to hit the button twice.  So it will go back on the charger but I can say that I am impressed I never thought it would go this long and still fire my bike. CCP on that engine is 161 on my gauge.

[ThumperDeuce]

I thought I would update this so I started on Dec 8th with this batter. So 33 days later without charging the batter, and only starting the bike up. ( so no idle just crank it and once it fired I shut it off. )  It rolled over very slow today and it did fire but just barley and I had to hit the button twice.  So it will go back on the charger but I can say that I am impressed I never thought it would go this long and still fire my bike. CCP on that engine is 161 on my gauge.

How cold was the battery?  I've read where the snowmobile guys turn their lights on for awhile before they try to start the engine to bring the internal charge on the battery up.

[Buglet]

     Up date on twin power lithium ion, One year old dead as can be will not take a charge. Work excellent when it was good. Hope it was a fluke. Any other ones going bad?

[HD/Wrench]

So I just saw this , My went dead as well. The new amp was not shutting down and it drained the battery very low. It would not recharge. They did warranty it and now I have to find why the amp is not shutting down . However the not being able to recharge is a odd deal.. They tell you that you need a 'special charger" ok    but why the bikes charging system is the same .. it charges the Ion batter AGM wet etc..  The special charger deal to me is a up-sell nothing more until some one can explain why its is truly needed .. 

[Hossamania]

My car starter charger does not have the desulfate feature of the Battery Tender, and has a two amp option, would that work as well as the special charger? (Right now it is charging my three year old ATV battery, agm, that hasn't been started in over a year. We'll see how that does. A Duracell, Batteries Plus special, I believe.)

[FXDBI]

So I just saw this , My went dead as well. The new amp was not shutting down and it drained the battery very low. It would not recharge. They did warranty it and now I have to find why the amp is not shutting down . However the not being able to recharge is a odd deal.. They tell you that you need a 'special charger" ok    but why the bikes charging system is the same .. it charges the Ion batter AGM wet etc..  The special charger deal to me is a up-sell nothing more until some one can explain why its is truly needed ..

I bought the Optimate charger that AG sells. It has a battery save mode that starts at .5v on a dead battery and up to 5amps automatically set by the charger for the best rate.  Last year bike sat for a awhile in the fall, when I went out it was dead and I was FFS removed put on the charger let it do its thing and it fully charged and is fine. It was down in the 11v range before the charger. The instructions with the charger state if they go to 10v or less it will damage the battery. I am about as cheap as they come but consider the charger a good investment after spending big$$$ to get the AG 720 amp battery in Canada. Trying to explain why is like trying to explain to a FP3 owner why a dyno tune is needed. 
PS
Would really like to try and charge one that is dead and a conventional charger wont charge to see if it would revive it.  Bob