HarleyTechTalk

 

-JW

If you do go with a DME 500, let us know how it performs. I run a andrews 27 in my fxr at 9.5. Runs great. Lot of fun. I've thought about trying the DME 500. Might be a little bit better on the super slab.

I have run both of the cams, EV27 and EV46 in my 95 FX springer. I have 10-1 Wiseco pistons and .030 gaskets and a Dyna 2000 ignition. I put the 46 in last winter for a change in scenery but I'm taking it out and putting the 27 back in. Not that there is anything wrong with the 46 but my riding style has me under 3 grand a lot and this cam really like the revs. For what the 46 delivers the 27 gives it a good run for it's money but in a broader window.

EV-46 is happier north of 4000rpm. FXR and Dyna cam. My '92 cam with a EV-46. Now has a Crane 300-2B. IMHO, much more practical in a Evo Softail for all around use. Drag race? Nope. Ride it to Key West and back, no problem.

-JW

https://www.davemackie.com/cams.html

As I said i ran this one for three  years .
It hauls the mail!
It does suggest HIPO springs -I thought it needed the guides shortened -nope

I suggest you look at this again.




DM530   INTAKE   28   42   .530   .221   250°   97°   Excellent for 80, 88 and 89 inchers. Likes 8.5 to 10.0 C.R. 2000 to 6000+. High performance springs recommended.
EXHAUST   55   15   .530   .141   250°   110°

Quote from: thumper 823 on April 18, 2020, 05:47:52 PM
https://www.davemackie.com/cams.html

As I said i ran this one for three  years .
It hauls the mail!
It does suggest HIPO springs -I thought it needed the guides shortened -nope

I suggest you look at this again.




DM530   INTAKE   28   42   .530   .221   250°   97°   Excellent for 80, 88 and 89 inchers. Likes 8.5 to 10.0 C.R. 2000 to 6000+. High performance springs recommended.
EXHAUST   55   15   .530   .141   250°   110°

The op is doing no headwork, so hipo springs are out, that puts that cam out of the list.

Looks like a great performing cam with the right compression and the supporting components. But probably just outside of the realm of this build..... have to draw the line somewhere l guess.
Cheers

Quote from: Deye76 on April 17, 2020, 04:20:04 PM

Quote from: JW113 on April 17, 2020, 09:14:45 AM
Huh???

Adam, ignore all that, I don't think any of it applies to what you are trying to do with your bike. I think you're on the right course, so steady as she goes.

-JW

As usual JW113 giving practical, street usable information.
Who gives a flyin' flip about what someone did on the track years ago. Doesn't come close to applying to what the OP is trying to accomplish.

Hi Deye, thanks for your input.

With the ev27 cam set up at 9.5 comp, with the heads cc'd at 83...... is any other type of basic headwork going to improve things or be worth while? I keep reading about 3 or 5 angle valve jobs and unshrouding the ports (whatever that means). I don't want to spend money on a pretty mild build unless it's going to make a real world benefit. Cost to benefit ratio if you know what i mean.

What do you suggest regarding headwork?
Thanks Adam

Quote from: Adam76 on April 20, 2020, 07:17:20 AM

Quote from: Deye76 on April 17, 2020, 04:20:04 PM

Quote from: JW113 on April 17, 2020, 09:14:45 AM
Huh???

Adam, ignore all that, I don't think any of it applies to what you are trying to do with your bike. I think you're on the right course, so steady as she goes.

-JW

As usual JW113 giving practical, street usable information.
Who gives a flyin' flip about what someone did on the track years ago. Doesn't come close to applying to what the OP is trying to accomplish.

Hi Deye, thanks for your input.

With the ev27 cam set up at 9.5 comp, with the heads cc'd at 83...... is any other type of basic headwork going to improve things or be worth while? I keep reading about 3 or 5 angle valve jobs and unshrouding the ports (whatever that means). I don't want to spend money on a pretty mild build unless it's going to make a real world benefit. Cost to benefit ratio if you know what i mean.

What do you suggest regarding headwork?
Thanks Adam

Any Old school Indy will be able to do at minimum a 3 angle valve job... the Only way to do it Right... unless you have a Serti or something!!!It is mapped out in the "Book" and beats the Crap out of "Lapping" which to me... is just Silly!!!

Quote from: Racepres on April 20, 2020, 08:18:44 AM

Quote from: Adam76 on April 20, 2020, 07:17:20 AM

Quote from: Deye76 on April 17, 2020, 04:20:04 PM

Quote from: JW113 on April 17, 2020, 09:14:45 AM
Huh???

Adam, ignore all that, I don't think any of it applies to what you are trying to do with your bike. I think you're on the right course, so steady as she goes.

-JW

As usual JW113 giving practical, street usable information.
Who gives a flyin' flip about what someone did on the track years ago. Doesn't come close to applying to what the OP is trying to accomplish.

Hi Deye, thanks for your input.

With the ev27 cam set up at 9.5 comp, with the heads cc'd at 83...... is any other type of basic headwork going to improve things or be worth while? I keep reading about 3 or 5 angle valve jobs and unshrouding the ports (whatever that means). I don't want to spend money on a pretty mild build unless it's going to make a real world benefit. Cost to benefit ratio if you know what i mean.

What do you suggest regarding headwork?
Thanks Adam

Any Old school Indy will be able to do at minimum a 3 angle valve job... the Only way to do it Right... unless you have a Serti or something!!!It is mapped out in the "Book" and beats the Crap out of "Lapping" which to me... is just Silly!!!

Thanks racepress..... what is "the book"  ?
We don't have any old school indys that I know of around here, and my question really is - is it worth doing in a build like mine? I'm happy to pay $350 for a valve job etc if it actually makes a difference in a mild build.

If I was doing a higher compression build with a higher lift cam then I would think it would be definitely necessary to get the most out of the entire build.

Cheers.

 3 angle is a very simple standard valve to hard seat angles typically 30 , 45, 60
45 is the contact where the seat width is adjusted.

The power is in multi-angles, back cutting, unshroud the valve if needed.    On and on and on I / we can go.
As i said i now use 50 deg seats.
Usually and always there is a compromise somewhere to every gain.

You can study this for a few hours on the net every single night for homework.
If you use tulip valves they are said to flow more.
Back to you,- if you are removing springs I would replace guide stem seal just because you are there.
Don't forget to check your Spring HT  if changing springs.
This is a simple operation and most any machine shop can do it if you don't know-how.

Adam PM up FSG he is in Australia he might be able to hook you up with some one to freshen up your heads for you.   Bob

Quote from: Adam76 on April 20, 2020, 03:52:51 PM

Thanks racepress..... what is "the book"  ?
We don't have any old school indys that I know of around here, and my question really is - is it worth doing in a build like mine? I'm happy to pay $350 for a valve job etc if it actually makes a difference in a mild build.

If I was doing a higher compression build with a higher lift cam then I would think it would be definitely necessary to get the most out of the entire build.

Cheers.

The book is the service manual.. it shows exactly what should be done...and if done properly...yes it does make a Difference..
on valve guide seals i do Not see how you could remove a Valve without compromising the seal, let alone shoving the seat grinding pilot in and out... get new seals ans Install Properly... that Damn Book again!!!!

I have 4 seals brand new from granger here if you want them free!  PM me an address.

Quote from: Racepres on April 20, 2020, 06:21:59 PM

Quote from: Adam76 on April 20, 2020, 03:52:51 PM

Thanks racepress..... what is "the book"  ?
We don't have any old school indys that I know of around here, and my question really is - is it worth doing in a build like mine? I'm happy to pay $350 for a valve job etc if it actually makes a difference in a mild build.

If I was doing a higher compression build with a higher lift cam then I would think it would be definitely necessary to get the most out of the entire build.

Cheers.

The book is the service manual.. it shows exactly what should be done...and if done properly...yes it does make a Difference..
on valve guide seals i do Not see how you could remove a Valve without compromising the seal, let alone shoving the seat grinding pilot in and out... get new seals ans Install Properly... that Damn Book again!!!!

Ahhh the book. Yes I have a Haynes manual because I could not find or buy a genuine Harley workshop manual for love or money.

One more question,  at what ccp do ypu need to ijnstall compression releases?  180?  185? 190? 
Thank

Quote from: thumper 823 on April 20, 2020, 05:45:00 PM
3 angle is a very simple standard valve to hard seat angles typically 30 , 45, 60
45 is the contact where the seat width is adjusted.

The power is in multi-angles, back cutting, unshroud the valve if needed.    On and on and on I / we can go.
As i said i now use 50 deg seats.
Usually and always there is a compromise somewhere to every gain.

You can study this for a few hours on the net every single night for homework.
If you use tulip valves they are said to flow more.
Back to you,- if you are removing springs I would replace guide stem seal just because you are there.
Don't forget to check your Spring HT  if changing springs.
This is a simple operation and most any machine shop can do it if you don't know-how.

👍  thanks thumper

Quote from: FXDBI on April 20, 2020, 06:00:26 PM
Adam PM up FSG he is in Australia he might be able to hook you up with some one to freshen up your heads for you.   Bob

Hey Bob, thanks for that, l hadn't spoken to FSG for a long time.
Cheers

Quote from: thumper 823 on April 20, 2020, 11:31:18 PM
I have 4 seals brand new from granger here if you want them free!  PM me an address.

Thanks, will pm you

One more question,  at what ccp do ypu need to ijnstall compression releases?  180?  185? 190?


They are mostly sold to people who have cams for the wrong application AFAIAC
Others may have other opinions and that is OK too
I would spend my money on double plus heads and ignition, not buttons.
Anyway, you don't need them, cause I don't use them.  !  LOL

Static CCR is determined by several things-  Stroke, bore, piston ring placement, CC volume @ TDC  and a couple more things
Next the cam also determines CR in the real world.

Illustration? Listen to a Lumpy Old school dragster or Hot rod motor.
With  both valves  open for so long it has no power low RPM and low compression until VE is achieved (high RPM)
SO, The wrong cam will make CR at the wrong RPM range.
Plus as I said that is why I had to change cams as everything was fine,,,,,,, until I raised to Ports up  1/2 inch . (and some other stuff)
Now I had the tink tinks at Low RPM with mid throttle.
This porting raising raised my CR UP! with same cam and pistons etc

Hope this helps
I am not the end-all, others have good info on here too.  To this point, I have not seen anyone give you bad information -There are other places full of shet.
One place has members - idiots follow  BS and advice that they have all read elsewhere and try to sound like experts.
Thankfully they have not shown here.
Tis a great crew here!
I might be the worse as I want to spend your money!

Haha.... yes thumper, you are very good at spending my money.  😆

I think Thumpers is tying to say... You should not require Compression releases if you do things [certainly Cams] the right way..I have a 74 inch gas Harley that has been High 9's @135MPH 1/4mi... no Releases!!! Used them "Holes" for Spark Plugs!!!!

Quote from: Racepres on April 21, 2020, 06:18:10 AM
I think Thumpers is tying to say... You should not require Compression releases if you do things [certainly Cams] the right way..I have a 74 inch gas Harley that has been High 9's @135MPH 1/4mi... no Releases!!! Used them "Holes" for Spark Plugs!!!!

Absolutely correct!

9s?
That is dam fast!  I would love to know your blueprint. ( or anyones but mine )My secrets if I have any, I have prolly stolen from someone else !  LOL
Are you running and CF parts?  Wheels??
I have to admit my weakness....lightweight parts  !   LOL

Quote from: thumper 823 on April 21, 2020, 06:38:06 AM

Quote from: Racepres on April 21, 2020, 06:18:10 AM
I think Thumpers is tying to say... You should not require Compression releases if you do things [certainly Cams] the right way..I have a 74 inch gas Harley that has been High 9's @135MPH 1/4mi... no Releases!!! Used them "Holes" for Spark Plugs!!!!

Absolutely correct!

9s?
That is dam fast!  I would love to know your blueprint. ( or anyones but mine )My secrets if I have any, I have prolly stolen from someone else !  LOL
Are you running and CF parts?  Wheels??
I have to admit my weakness....lightweight parts  !   LOL

Yup, and some other off the wall "experimental" stuff ... Besides... it is an IronHead!!!!!
can't hardly get any Parts Now...
[attach=0,msg1343457]

That is a Picture from a 135MPH pass... But Not a 9... 10.03 or 6 or Sumpin!!! Nuff to win tho!!!!
She was always good for a Flat 10

I see you have sparky plugs on the wrong side too.
What CF parts are you invested in? 
wheels?
swing arm?
?

Quote from: thumper 823 on April 21, 2020, 08:23:33 AM
I see you have sparky plugs on the wrong side too.
What CF parts are you invested in? 
wheels?
swing arm?
?

IDK what CF parts is... but if that means Custom and one off... Alot!!! No real swingarm on that one... it is a Two Wheel travel [Dave Feazel] Chassis, 8 inch Good Year Slick,  on a Custom PMFR wheel's,  Cheriani fork,  custom trees, PM Brakes... sometimes change to Gramica...I make the Tank Shells, don't recall where the cute little fairing came from... Two Wheel Travel did the seat..and the Clip-ons..
I fabbed an Off board bearing support.
The Engine... 3.5 bore 3.875 Stroke... Some Over bore... she is Pushing 76 Inches ... the limit by rule then for a Sportster.
Unobtainium nail headed Valves... Secret Cams and Headwork by RHC [RIP Ron] Bored and modified S&S "G", custom velocity stack. MSD Ignition... I fabbed the pipes... change about every race till I got that figured out!!
Anything else???