Clutch release ramps

[Ohio HD]

My reason for ordering the Muller ramps is I'm using the green springs in my Barnett Scorpion clutch. Holds the motor great, Jim said when on the dyno zero slip. I can chirp 2nd gear when shifting at will too. But when in a tight situation, and I need to slip the clutch a lot, that clutch lever gets heavy....  and it's almost slipped out of my grasp a few times.

[Jim Bronson]

 It wouldn't work well with the Muller ramps for the reason Hoss mentioned. The Muller inner ramp uses a slightly longer arm in combination with the ball bearings being situated closer to the rotation axis. I personally like a wider friction zone because I like to use it when riding slowly. The Muller is also kinda pricey, so I'd recommend trying the Burly or White arm extensions first to see whether they do the job for you. I've read good reports about them.

[Bagger]

How do you guys check for clutch drag, with the bike on a jack and rear wheel off the ground.  That's how I check mine anyway. 

I run a Barnett Scorpion clutch with 6 green springs 492 lbs spring pressure.  I run the stock 21* ramp in my 2002 RK.  I've tried the HD 18* ramp, but with rear wheel off the ground, bike in 1st, lever pulled in, rear wheel would spin.  I couldn't adjust the clutch drag out.

With the 21* ramp, the rear wheel doesn't spin.  I've ordered the Muller to try, but I really don't think it'll work with the Barnett Scorpion.  Muller in their instructions don't recommend it with non OEM clutches or non OEM cables.

Barnett and Baker recommend at least 070" of pressure plate travel to avoid having any disengagement issues.

Here's what Baker said in an article about pressure plate travel.
http://crustyoldsite.bakerdrivetrain.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/BBaker_0710-Picking-on-the-poor-transmission.pdf

Do your homework when using factory or aftermarket low effort clutch actuator ball ramps; lower clutch effort is achieved by lowering the clutch pressure plate travel. You can't cheat Newtonian physics. On a brand new bike low effort ball ramps will probably work fine. On a bike with worn clutch plates and a tired cable it may not work. With an aftermarket performance clutch it definitely won't work. When the clutch is not released completely, the first symptom will be difficulty in finding neutral, the next symptom will be hard shifting, and the third will be clutch dragging/creep at a stoplight.

[Hossamania]

I think Ray is running a Bandit Sportsman clutch with the Muller and has no problems, he likes it a lot.
I'm sure he will give his observations here, again.

[locker55]

How do you guys check for clutch drag, with the bike on a jack and rear wheel off the ground.  That's how I check mine anyway. 

I run a Barnett Scorpion clutch with 6 green springs 492 lbs spring pressure.  I run the stock 21* ramp in my 2002 RK.  I've tried the HD 18* ramp, but with rear wheel off the ground, bike in 1st, lever pulled in, rear wheel would spin.  I couldn't adjust the clutch drag out.

With the 21* ramp, the rear wheel doesn't spin.  I've ordered the Muller to try, but I really don't think it'll work with the Barnett Scorpion.  Muller in their instructions don't recommend it with non OEM clutches or non OEM cables.

Barnett and Baker recommend at least 070" of pressure plate travel to avoid having any disengagement issues.

Here's what Baker said in an article about pressure plate travel.
http://crustyoldsite.bakerdrivetrain.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/BBaker_0710-Picking-on-the-poor-transmission.pdf

Do your homework when using factory or aftermarket low effort clutch actuator ball ramps; lower clutch effort is achieved by lowering the clutch pressure plate travel. You can't cheat Newtonian physics. On a brand new bike low effort ball ramps will probably work fine. On a bike with worn clutch plates and a tired cable it may not work. With an aftermarket performance clutch it definitely won't work. When the clutch is not released completely, the first symptom will be difficulty in finding neutral, the next symptom will be hard shifting, and the third will be clutch dragging/creep at a stoplight.

Good info. I do note that running the BDL lock up plate that bike wants to walk at stops, give it a bump on the throttle and it goes away. I have adjusted this clutch many times to get the happy spot.
So is baker saying their trans will be easier to adjust and last longer inside?
Also are they a seller of the ramp extension?
I been thinking of going to the baker six speed gear set for the five speed, but it's hard to justify the cost when the bike runs like a champ.
I wish I could demo the Mueller and the extension. (Decision, Decisions, Decisions.....)

[Jim Bronson]

You could get lucky and find a used Muller on ebay, but I can't imagine anyone going back to OEM ramps after using a Muller.

[kd]

I think Ray is running a Bandit Sportsman clutch with the Muller and has no problems, he likes it a lot.
I'm sure he will give his observations here, again.

I'm running the exact same clutch as No Cents (Ray) with one more shim, Evo Ind. 49 tooth basket and Muller Power Clutch. The claim is 40% lighter lever and I believe it because I ran without it using the same clutch set up. It went from brutal pull to like stock. Like Hoss said, the clutch starts to engage earlier (closer to the grip at about 30% travel) but not on and off like a light switch. That slower initial engagement comes in handy when trying to feather your way around a crowded parking lot.

[FSG]

Set up correctly the Mueller works fine, the addition of the extension would be 3 steps backwards, I'd not waste my time trying an easy pull extension on the end of the Mueller ramp.

[harley_cruiser]

Set up correctly the Mueller works fine, the addition of the extension would be 3 steps backwards, I'd not waste my time trying an easy pull extension on the end of the Mueller ramp.

You would not want to use the Mueller with the easy pull, your clutch would not disengage at all. My question was is there any advantage in replacing the easy pull with the Mueller.

[Jim Bronson]

Set up correctly the Mueller works fine, the addition of the extension would be 3 steps backwards, I'd not waste my time trying an easy pull extension on the end of the Mueller ramp.

You would not want to use the Mueller with the easy pull, your clutch would not disengage at all. My question was is there any advantage in replacing the easy pull with the Mueller.

I can only say that I have the SE spring with the  HD Tire Shredder kit in my '15 RK, and the clutch pull is very easy with the Muller ramps. I see very little difference between mine and the hydraulic clutch of my buddy's '17 RK with the stock spring. If you're OK with the EZ Pull extension, then there's no need to change it. However if you have a SE spring and are looking for the easiest pull possible, then you may want to try the Muller. My dealer got it set just the way I like it, but it did take him a few tries.

[Ohio HD]

I've checked out Ray's lever pull on his bike, it's pretty easy to pull in by opinion. I also know how stiff his lever was before he had the Muller in the bike. My Scorpion with the green springs is a very stout pull. In honesty the only reason I want to make the lever pull less is for when you're in a tight turn, up hill, or down hill, I mean a 10mph tight  corner on a hillside. It's tough to feather that clutch lever and especially with more power, a slight slip of the lever and you could launch right off the road. As well if your in a hurry with the clutch lever, it's harder to control the bike.   

[Ohio HD]

Speak of the Muller, it showed up just a minute ago.


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[FSG]

My question was is there any advantage in replacing the easy pull with the Mueller.

IMO Yes

[Bagger]

Speak of the Muller, it showed up just a minute ago.

Please give us a user review and will you be measuring pressure plate travel before and after?

[No Cents]

  while your in there Brian...put one of those Shovel springs on your clutch cable...if you don't already have one on it.
FSG probably knows the part number for it off the top of his head. I'll see if I can find it. I know I got it wrote down some where.

[14Frisco]

Shovel springs on your clutch cable

33201-79
More info here: 33201-79 Shifter Pawl Carrier Spring - For Clutch Cable

[No Cents]

  it looks like he has a few of them. 

[Hossamania]

My question was is there any advantage in replacing the easy pull with the Mueller.

IMO Yes

After using the Easy Pull, and not using the Muller ramps, I have to think the Muller's are much better. I did not like the easy pull set up at all.

[Ohio HD]

  while your in there Brian...put one of those Shovel springs on your clutch cable...if you don't already have one on it.
FSG probably knows the part number for it off the top of his head. I'll see if I can find it. I know I got it wrote down some where.

I have a couple of them here Ray.   


http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=63622.msg680567#msg680567

[FSG]

[Ohio HD]

Speak of the Muller, it showed up just a minute ago.

Please give us a user review and will you be measuring pressure plate travel before and after?

I will, but it's going to be a few months before I have all of the parts to rebuild the transmission, a new swing arm, etc. I know I can get as much as 0.079" travel with stock ramps. When I went to the heavy green springs in my Scorpion I lost a little travel. I attribute that to the clutch cable buckling a little. A new cable, and a set of 21° ramps and I have the travel back. But I also have a strong clutch lever pull now.

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[FSG]

The EZ Pull Extension effectively lengthens the ramp arm/increases the lever arm and in doing so reduces the effort required to rotate the ramp.

But the clutch lever/cable travel remains the same, i.e. BLUE T =  RED T

So the ramp with the extension rotates less than without, i.e. Black/Blue Angle is less than the Black/Red Angle

end result with a longer arm is reduced clutch plate seperation

the better way is to reduce the PCD of the balls which is what Mueller have done

[harley_cruiser]

The EZ Pull Extension effectively lengthens the ramp arm/increases the lever arm and in doing so reduces the effort required to rotate the ramp.

But the clutch lever/cable travel remains the same, i.e. BLUE T =  RED T

So the ramp with the extension rotates less than without, i.e. Black/Blue Angle is less than the Black/Red Angle

end result with a longer arm is reduced clutch plate seperation

the better way is to reduce the PCD of the balls which is what Mueller have done

Thanks FSG, that is the way I will go and get rid of the easy pull, I need a new clutch and cable so will do it then.

[No Cents]

  you won't believe the difference it will make...especially if you put a new cable on at the same time.
Be sure to put one of those Shovel springs on over the end of the cable inside the housing while your in there. 

[FSG]

I need a new clutch and cable so will do it then.

The newer cables with the teflon coating are soooooo good

While not for everyone, I've taken to using Lightweight Shockproof, sure drains easier and works just as well.