Clutch release ramps

[tmwmoose]

Some time back and probably it was FSG that had some pics of the different ramps for identification. Been doing searches with typically (its me) no results I have some ramps without the degree numbers on them. And was the non cable side the same for all?  Thanks

[FSG]

And was the non cable side the same for all? 

NO, they are matched sets

[koko3052]

Thanks FSG!

[tmwmoose]

Yeah thanks , I have a stationary ramp that has a dimple on the non ramp side opposite the tab?

[tmwmoose]

FSG, a while back on the discussion of the Muller arm assy you stated "the Muller has a slightly longer lever arm than the HD unit which is an advantage and also has a reduced circle diameter for the ramps which returns the separation loss due to the reduced ramp angle, another advantage." 
The " Reduced  circle" Can you school me on how that works? Thanks

[crazy joe]

FSG, a while back on the discussion of the Muller arm assy you stated "the Muller has a slightly longer lever arm than the HD unit which is an advantage and also has a reduced circle diameter for the ramps which returns the separation loss due to the reduced ramp angle, another advantage." 
The " Reduced  circle" Can you school me on how that works? Thanks

Also which would be best to use?

[tmwmoose]

FSG, a while back on the discussion of the Muller arm assy you stated "the Muller has a slightly longer lever arm than the HD unit which is an advantage and also has a reduced circle diameter for the ramps which returns the separation loss due to the reduced ramp angle, another advantage." 
The " Reduced  circle" Can you school me on how that works? Thanks

Also which would be best to use?

FWIW I am using the Muller since it came out and love it . I'm trying to find out if the Muller does disengage as much as the 21 degree ramps did . I think this is where FSG was going with the circle bit just wanted him to elaborate on it.

[FSG]

Ignore the fact the Muller in the 2nd pic is for a sporty, the point of the pic is the reduced PCD of the ramps.



it's a bit like a wheelbarrow, the closer the weight is to the wheel the easier it is to pickup

[Ohio HD]

Has anyone by chance ever measured the ramp widths, etc and documented for the factory HD parts?

[crazy joe]

If I remember right Muller is high dollar.

[FSG]

I have a stationary ramp that has a dimple on the non ramp side opposite the tab?

don't know what it means if anything at all

[kd]

If I remember right Muller is high dollar.

Unless there is a less expensive alternative that works as well (or better) it's probably worth it. I don't see one out there. The Muller uses a simple engineering theory that no one else picked up on or put to use and they are being rewarded for that.    No body else has applied the smaller circle for the ramps to regain the pushrod travel. If it fixes the problem and you can move on it seems to be a win.

[FSG]

And was the non cable side the same for all?

to add further to my NO, there is a product out there called Clutchlite (around $60) that comes in three versions of reduced effort, and it replaces the BT Outer Ramp (stationary) only, so they mix the OEM BT Inner Ramp (lever arm) with their Outer Ramp, which they happen to refer to as the "Inner".


Personally I've not mixed the angles and have not done the simulation to see how they'd work together.

[FSG]

Has anyone by chance ever measured the ramp widths, etc and documented for the factory HD parts?

widths or lengths ?

[Ohio HD]

Has anyone by chance ever measured the ramp widths, etc and documented for the factory HD parts?

widths or lengths ?

Lengths, I guess, that's what changes, and the angle?

[kd]

The smaller work circle for the ramp position on the Muller makes a faster lever travel and moves the pushrod further per each degree of rotation. That's what pays back the travel that is lost with the longer lever. It is the simple Law of Levers theory at play.

[FSG]

Lengths, I guess, that's what changes, and the angle?

I've not measured then, but the smaller the angle the longer the ramp will be (limited by the thickness of the ramp material) BUT not all of it is used as the rotation of the Inner Ramp (in degs) is fixed by the clutch lever/fulcrum and the length of the OEM ramp arm.

[fatboy]

The smaller work circle for the ramp position on the Muller makes a faster lever travel and moves the pushrod further per each degree of rotation. That's what pays back the travel that is lost with the longer lever. It is the simple Law of Levers theory at play.

Smaller circle means more effort, longer lever means less effort ... looks like a wash?
One cancels out the other.

[Ohio HD]

Lengths, I guess, that's what changes, and the angle?

I've not measured then, but the smaller the angle the longer the ramp will be (limited by the thickness of the ramp material) BUT not all of it is used as the rotation of the Inner Ramp (in degs) is fixed by the clutch lever/fulcrum and the length of the OEM ramp arm.

    Yep, and I can tell them apart when they're next to each other, but just trying to identify a single part, I'm not familiar enough to eye ball them. I'll have to take some dimensions when I'm that far into one the next time.

[FSG]

Can you eyeball the difference between a BT Inner Ramp and a XL Outer Ramp?   

[klammer76]

I recently installed my Muller in my SE 6 speed. Have it adjusted 1/4 turn out from bottom on the adjustment screw and what I thought was 1/16 on cable. Clutch travel measures .050 at the adjustment screw. I need to lower the table lift down and readjust the cable again. Haven't had the bike out as still winter here. Pull is as nice with the Muller as it was with the white bros easy boy.

[FSG]

Can you eyeball the difference between a BT Outer Ramp and a XL Inner Ramp?   

[kd]

http://www.harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,40291.msg416216.html#msg416216

[tmwmoose]

Can you eyeball the difference between a BT Outer Ramp and a XL Inner Ramp?   

trick photo thats the same plate in each pic

[FSG]

trick photo thats the same plate in each pic

True, but the question isn't, the BT Outer Ramp and the XL Inner Ramp were the same P/N up to the 99 models, then the BT Outer Ramp changed P/N and later in 06/07 they changed the angle