I thought I would start a thread for questions pertaining to the Power Vision only, please don't make this a my tuner is better thread.
First questions
Does the Power Vision change the operating system so that other reflashes can not be done? (dealer etc)
Can the PV work off of the existing map that is in the bike?
Can the PV load a map into a system that has the operating system altered by other tuning devices?
Hey Bob
The pv doesn't change it so that other flashes couldn't be done, but you couldn't put the pv system over a new mastertune prgm unless you returned your ecm to original statusAnd as far as I know, you need to start with a pv pre configured map and go from there.
Quote from: BVHOG on August 16, 2012, 05:47:17 AM
I thought I would start a thread for questions pertaining to the Power Vision only, please don't make this a my tuner is better thread.
First questions
Does the Power Vision change the operating system so that other reflashes can not be done? (dealer etc)
No
Quote from: BVHOG on August 16, 2012, 05:47:17 AM
Can the PV work off of the existing map that is in the bike?Quote
Yes
Quote from: BVHOG on August 16, 2012, 05:47:17 AM
Can the PV load a map into a system that has the operating system altered by other tuning devices?
Anyone who can get onto the Dynojet Pow Vision website ( http://www.dynojet.com/powervision/powervision-device-features-and-specs.aspx (http://www.dynojet.com/powervision/powervision-device-features-and-specs.aspx) ) has these and many other questions answered...but I bet you know that. :wink:
Bob
Quote from: BVHOG on August 16, 2012, 05:47:17 AM
I thought I would start a thread for questions pertaining to the Power Vision only, please don't make this a my tuner is better thread.
First questions
Does the Power Vision change the operating system so that other reflashes can not be done? (dealer etc)
Can the PV work off of the existing map that is in the bike?
Can the PV load a map into a system that has the operating system altered by other tuning devices?
Power Vision does not affect the operating system. The HD dealer can also continue to communicate with Digital Tech as normal. If you prefer, the entire binary can be easily restored at any time under "Restore Original" with the PV display in less than a minute.
Power Vision allows you read, view, and tune whatever is currently in the ECM. (EXCEPT calibrations that have locked out by the tuning manufacturer)
Quote from: Jamie Long on August 16, 2012, 09:04:52 AM
Quote from: BVHOG on August 16, 2012, 05:47:17 AM
I thought I would start a thread for questions pertaining to the Power Vision only, please don't make this a my tuner is better thread.
First questions
Does the Power Vision change the operating system so that other reflashes can not be done? (dealer etc)
Can the PV work off of the existing map that is in the bike?
Can the PV load a map into a system that has the operating system altered by other tuning devices?
Power Vision does not affect the operating system. The HD dealer can also continue to communicate with Digital Tech as normal. If you prefer, the entire binary can be easily restored at any time under "Restore Original" with the PV display in less than a minute.
Power Vision allows you read, view, and tune whatever is currently in the ECM. (EXCEPT calibrations that have locked out by the tuning manufacturer)
So, if i want to change from TTS Mastertune to PowerVision should I reload the stock tune?
Quote from: Sporty 48 on August 16, 2012, 10:09:55 AM
Quote from: Jamie Long on August 16, 2012, 09:04:52 AM
Quote from: BVHOG on August 16, 2012, 05:47:17 AM
I thought I would start a thread for questions pertaining to the Power Vision only, please don't make this a my tuner is better thread.
First questions
Does the Power Vision change the operating system so that other reflashes can not be done? (dealer etc)
Can the PV work off of the existing map that is in the bike?
Can the PV load a map into a system that has the operating system altered by other tuning devices?
Power Vision does not affect the operating system. The HD dealer can also continue to communicate with Digital Tech as normal. If you prefer, the entire binary can be easily restored at any time under "Restore Original" with the PV display in less than a minute.
Power Vision allows you read, view, and tune whatever is currently in the ECM. (EXCEPT calibrations that have locked out by the tuning manufacturer)
So, if i want to change from TTS Mastertune to PowerVision should I reload the stock tune?
If you have the ability to restore the complete original binary with no other "surprises", yes you will be able to marry up the PV and go forward with a Power Vision calibration.
Quote from: FLTRI on August 16, 2012, 08:54:32 AM
Quote from: BVHOG on August 16, 2012, 05:47:17 AM
I thought I would start a thread for questions pertaining to the Power Vision only, please don't make this a my tuner is better thread.
First questions
Does the Power Vision change the operating system so that other reflashes can not be done? (dealer etc)
No
Quote from: BVHOG on August 16, 2012, 05:47:17 AM
Can the PV work off of the existing map that is in the bike?Quote
Yes
Quote from: BVHOG on August 16, 2012, 05:47:17 AM
Can the PV load a map into a system that has the operating system altered by other tuning devices?
Anyone who can get onto the Dynojet Pow Vision website ( http://www.dynojet.com/powervision/powervision-device-features-and-specs.aspx (http://www.dynojet.com/powervision/powervision-device-features-and-specs.aspx) ) has these and many other questions answered...but I bet you know that. :argue:
Bob
Yeah from now on no questions on any product... Just go to their website!
Nice try :wink:
Quote from: FLTRI on August 16, 2012, 08:54:32 AM
Quote from: BVHOG on August 16, 2012, 05:47:17 AM
I thought I would start a thread for questions pertaining to the Power Vision only, please don't make this a my tuner is better thread.
First questions
Does the Power Vision change the operating system so that other reflashes can not be done? (dealer etc)
No
Quote from: BVHOG on August 16, 2012, 05:47:17 AM
Can the PV work off of the existing map that is in the bike?Quote
Yes
Quote from: BVHOG on August 16, 2012, 05:47:17 AM
Can the PV load a map into a system that has the operating system altered by other tuning devices?
Anyone who can get onto the Dynojet Pow Vision website ( http://www.dynojet.com/powervision/powervision-device-features-and-specs.aspx (http://www.dynojet.com/powervision/powervision-device-features-and-specs.aspx) ) has these and many other questions answered...but I bet you know that. :wink:
Bob
No, I actually didn't know, thought it might be possible for the PV to bring up even the existing map of a tts altered operating system. Got my answer, thanks Jamie.
Next question.
Will the PV be offered as a dongle type system where there will be no requirements to purchase a viewing screen every time for someone (like a dyno tuner) who does multiple bikes?
Quote from: BVHOG on August 16, 2012, 01:11:59 PM
Next question.
Will the PV be offered as a dongle type system where there will be no requirements to purchase a viewing screen every time for someone (like a dyno tuner) who does multiple bikes?
Great question, yes this is already offered. Users have the ability to use the Power Vision on multiple bikes, you can purchase both Tune Licenses and Unlocks thru Dynojet and they offer special discounts for dealers or if you purchase by volume.
What about learned timing? I realize there are other timing tables tied to learned timing ,but any control over it? Outside of using the handle bar monitor to reset it, is there any other control?
On my current bike I started with the SEPST. Dealer did a so-so dyno tune on it, but I really wanted him to focus on the open loop, higher load areas. My intention was to use the SEPST to then fine tune in my riding range. It was cumbersome to use to say the least, but I knew my VE's were off as high as 12% just by data logging. Then came the PowerVision. I decided to make the jump and just pulled my existing tune out of the ECM and started with that one. I was then able to fine tune it in my closed loop range and get it to where I wanted. It really is a pretty great tool and very user friendly - no longer do I need to drag my laptop out to the garage or strap it to my bike.
Once I got my VE's dialed in, I then let it fine tune my spark advance. It will detect knock and very gradually reduce advance in those areas.
will the PowerVision work on a 06 bike with o2 sensor conversion?
****
Herko, I knew you couldn't stay away from this stuff for long, you should probably buy a dyno again, I know where you can get a good deal on a broken down old POS from a guy who would like to install a new dyno with trike option.
Hope you enjoyed the tuning videos I sent.
Jamie, could you give a more complete explanation of the licencing vs the unlocks.
Quote from: BVHOG on August 17, 2012, 05:57:11 AM
Herko, I knew you couldn't stay away from this stuff for long, you should probably buy a dyno again, I know where you can get a good deal on a broken down old POS from a guy who would like to install a new dyno with trike option.
Hope you enjoyed the tuning videos I sent.
Jamie, could you give a more complete explanation of the licencing vs the unlocks.
Bob, I'm pretty fortunate to still have access to my Dyno which is now at Harley-Davidson Louisville. I'll be their tuning guy for a while. In the HDL Dyno room we left room for the trike expansion retrofit module to convert a 250i to a 250ix.
Videos were great!
Check your email for PV licenses and unlock info.
Does the Power V. allow for "live" tuning? most tuners for the other MC companies let the tuner tune without having to reload the map every time.
thats really the biggest issue my tuner has with the TTS
Quote from: brunothedog on August 17, 2012, 07:15:19 AM
Does the Power V. allow for "live" tuning?...thats really the biggest issue my tuner has with the TTS
TTS, SESPT, Power Vision, Direct Link, and all reflashers can only operate this way.
Why? Because it's the
ECM not the software or communications dongle that dictates the engine cannot be running while the ECM is being reflashed.
As far as your tuner, some tuners have taken the time and huge effort to learn to tune with these systems...and it IS a lot more difficult to learn to tune with these systems as compared to add-on boxes that basically take the signal out and extend the time the injectors are open...but can be done with the engine running.
IME recalibrating the ECM rather than taking info out and changing it on the way to the engine has definite advantages...especially as applied to big inch and high compression builds as well as other build idiosyncrasies.
Bob
Got one to ask
Can you turn off auto decomps with PV?????
So with the new changes coming, you can take a bike like our 04 Ultra with the Harley 02's
and AutoTune with out the extra AutoTune unit or do you need the Power Vision and the
AutoTune unit??
Quote from: FXST120r on August 17, 2012, 07:50:15 PM
Got one to ask
Can you turn off auto decomps with PV?????
Yes..under Limits & Switches there is an Active Compression Release listing that can be toggled on or off.
Quote from: nhrider on August 18, 2012, 02:49:31 PM
Quote from: FXST120r on August 17, 2012, 07:50:15 PM
Got one to ask
Can you turn off auto decomps with PV?????
Yes..under Limits & Switches there is an Active Compression Release listing that can be toggled on or off.
can you import these values if they are not a tune item i have a tune for my softail but it deosnt have this under limits and switches can this be imported
Quote from: LJfxst on August 18, 2012, 06:28:37 PM
can you import these values if they are not a tune item i have a tune for my softail but it deosnt have this under limits and switches can this be imported
Still getting familiar with PV here. But to get the latest tables to appear for a non-updated cal file, this has worked for me:
With PV unit connected to your PC, open a non-updated cal in WinPV. Then select: Power Vision/"Update Tune using PV..." A few seconds go by and the non-updated cal auto reloads n WinPV as an updated cal with the latest tables now available.
Has worked on the 159 cals and newer. NOTE: This may also be firmware level dependent.
With current production firmware to Update your tune to expose all of the newest tables and features you will first run the Update Client and make sure you have the latest firmware and software, you will then on the PV display go to Program Vehicle>Load Copy>Copy of Current and save to a slot in the Tune Manager. You can then retrieve it in WinPv.
One of the updates in the latest Beta firmware is the ability to update the tune right thru the software are Herko mentions. This will be included in the production firmware that will be released shortly. As I noted earlier if anyone would like to try the latest Beta FW just shoot me an email at jamie@fuelmotousa.com and I would be happy to send it over.
Another question, can the PV system be used to pull up an existing map from the ecm without locking itself to that particular vin?
Quote from: Jamie Long on August 19, 2012, 04:02:13 PM
With current production firmware to Update your tune to expose all of the newest tables and features you will first run the Update Client and make sure you have the latest firmware and software, you will then on the PV display go to Program Vehicle>Load Copy>Copy of Current and save to a slot in the Tune Manager. You can then retrieve it in WinPv.
One of the updates in the latest Beta firmware is the ability to update the tune right thru the software are Herko mentions. This will be included in the production firmware that will be released shortly. As I noted earlier if anyone would like to try the latest Beta FW just shoot me an email at jamie@fuelmotousa.com and I would be happy to send it over.
i have tried this and in the tune i have the only extra tune item that came up was the active exhaust took it to a dynojet tune centre here in Australia to get tuned and he wasn't able to bring them up either if i try the beta software will the tune that he has done for me stay on power vision because he has locked it and cant save to computer what im trying to do is turn off the acr
Quote from: LJfxst on August 22, 2012, 06:16:24 AM
i have tried this and in the tune i have the only extra tune item that came up was the active exhaust took it to a dynojet tune centre here in Australia to get tuned and he wasn't able to bring them up either if i try the beta software will the tune that he has done for me stay on power vision because he has locked it and cant save to computer what im trying to do is turn off the acr
I,,I,.T.I,?W.
Quote from: BVHOG on August 21, 2012, 06:16:09 PM
Another question, can the PV system be used to pull up an existing map from the ecm without locking itself to that particular vin?
You can use the PV to read the complete .STK binary of any "unlocked" ecm, however this .STK can only be converted to a PV calibration on the bike the PV is married to (or bikes in which you have an additional tune license)
Quote from: LJfxst on August 22, 2012, 06:16:24 AM
Quote from: Jamie Long on August 19, 2012, 04:02:13 PM
With current production firmware to Update your tune to expose all of the newest tables and features you will first run the Update Client and make sure you have the latest firmware and software, you will then on the PV display go to Program Vehicle>Load Copy>Copy of Current and save to a slot in the Tune Manager. You can then retrieve it in WinPv.
One of the updates in the latest Beta firmware is the ability to update the tune right thru the software are Herko mentions. This will be included in the production firmware that will be released shortly. As I noted earlier if anyone would like to try the latest Beta FW just shoot me an email at jamie@fuelmotousa.com and I would be happy to send it over.
i have tried this and in the tune i have the only extra tune item that came up was the active exhaust took it to a dynojet tune centre here in Australia to get tuned and he wasn't able to bring them up either if i try the beta software will the tune that he has done for me stay on power vision because he has locked it and cant save to computer what im trying to do is turn off the acr
If the tables are not exposed in the software first make sure the firmware, software,
and tune database is fully updated. If the table is not in the software check the tune items on the PV unit itself as we are moving some of the less significant tables there such as ACR, Speedo cal, and a few others to clean up the PV maps a bit. Alot of this will be changing with this big firmware update this is going to roll out shortly.
A couple of questions,If tuning with the wideband O2s, when you are happy with the tune, is it recommended to then replace the sensors with the stock n/b's?
Does the timing learn mean that supplied maps can be set with aggressive spark timing and the PV will auto adjust these back over a period of time, if so, what kind of period of time does it take?
Quote from: DaleW on August 22, 2012, 01:46:32 PM
A couple of questions,If tuning with the wideband O2s, when you are happy with the tune, is it recommended to then replace the sensors with the stock n/b's?
Does the timing learn mean that supplied maps can be set with aggressive spark timing and the PV will auto adjust these back over a period of time, if so, what kind of period of time does it take?
There are several ways the Wideband Auto Tune can be used. You can use them to develop your tune and when finished replace the stock O2 sensors and turn on closed loop, or if you have dual O2 bungs (like our Jackpot FLH head pipe's, Rineharts, and other) you can run both sets of sensors which allows your to retain closed loop and you can monitor live WB data if you choose.
Timing corrections are based on a strategy that uses recorded knock events vs number of hits in your logs. The most important aspect to note is we need to work within the limits of system itself and it can only remove timing not add it. The PV timing correction feature works really well and eliminates the need to go thru logs frame by frame, however the key is not setting the timing overly aggressive and relying on the knock retard to set the timing, rather using a good timing table and using the tools at hand to develop your table.
There are several ways the Wideband Auto Tune can be used. You can use them to develop your tune and when finished replace the stock O2 sensors and turn on closed loop, or if you have dual O2 bungs (like our Jackpot FLH head pipe's, Rineharts, and other) you can run both sets of sensors which allows your to retain closed loop and you can monitor live WB data if you choose.
I have an 09 FLHRC, is it possible to run the small nb sensors down by the collector on the 09 models as well as the wb's up in the original type placement?
I really dont understand why someone would keep 4 O2 sensors on a motor once it's tuned.
Dont they consume? after 50 thousand miles are can they be trusted.
just wondering.
Once i got my motor tuned to my satisfaction I took out the narrow bands, don't really see the need other than when i will be riding in extreme conditions.
I wonder about the accuracy of the wide-band sensors and how they compare to the factory narrow band. If the motorcycle is tuned to the wideband sensors (which are removed once tuning is complete), will the narrow band sensors agree with the tune?
Is there any way to check to make sure they're both giving the ECM accurate data.
Also, with the PV AutoTune sensor calibration, what is the tolerance once calilbrated. Is it .1%, 10%, or somewhere in between.
I am planning to move from TTS to PowerVision wth the auto tuner in the extremely near future. It's quite an investment, but sure looks like an extremely good product and it'll be fun to play with for more than just tuning. (I saw one last night). Just trying to learn all I can before making the change. Just like with TTS, I'll be taking my motor to The Dyno Difference to test how my home-tune with PV compares to a professional dyno tune.
Quote from: Ken R on August 23, 2012, 07:24:46 AM
I wonder about the accuracy of the wide-band sensors and how they compare to the factory narrow band. If the motorcycle is tuned to the wideband sensors (which are removed once tuning is complete), will the narrow band sensors agree with the tune?
Is there any way to check to make sure they're both giving the ECM accurate data.
Also, with the PV AutoTune sensor calibration, what is the tolerance once calilbrated. Is it .1%, 10%, or somewhere in between.
I am planning to move from TTS to PowerVision wth the auto tuner in the extremely near future. It's quite an investment, but sure looks like an extremely good product and it'll be fun to play with for more than just tuning. (I saw one last night). Just trying to learn all I can before making the change. Just like with TTS, I'll be taking my motor to The Dyno Difference to test how my home-tune with PV compares to a professional dyno tune.
I run the factory sensors and the WB Auto Tune sensors on my personal bike (which has the Jackpot 2/1 with both sets of bungs) and can tell you that having the ability to watch live data from both sets of sensors along side what the ECM is doing in closed loop both short term and long term is awesome. You can see exactly what the ECM is doing live, how it is applying data, and the end results out the tail pipe, all in black and white. No smoke and mirrors
Quote from: Ken R on August 23, 2012, 07:24:46 AM
I wonder about the accuracy of the wide-band sensors and how they compare to the factory narrow band. If the motorcycle is tuned to the wideband sensors (which are removed once tuning is complete), will the narrow band sensors agree with the tune?
Is there any way to check to make sure they're both giving the ECM accurate data.
Also, with the PV AutoTune sensor calibration, what is the tolerance once calilbrated. Is it .1%, 10%, or somewhere in between.
You can very accurately switch between the factory O2 sensors and the WB sensors with the Auto Tune, we have tested this hundreds of times over here on and off the dyno. As noted in my post above many times we run both sensors (if you have the pipes to accept them) and you can see the accuracy first hand along with what the system is doing. As far as calibration it is simply a free air test which will give you a go/no go result that Dynojet has developed in the controller.
Another question. Some of us asked for TTS to have a means to launch the ABS bleed sequence, without any success up to now. It would be possible for PV to have such capability? Going to the dealer for such a simple thing as bleeding the brakes is a PITA.
Quote from: emece on August 31, 2012, 03:40:43 AM
Another question. Some of us asked for TTS to have a means to launch the ABS bleed sequence, without any success up to now. It would be possible for PV to have such capability? Going to the dealer for such a simple thing as bleeding the brakes is a PITA.
Techno Research centurion has this function available. and yes whenever i can eliminate the dealer i do.
TN
Can you trade in a TTS on a PV ?
Quote from: emece on August 31, 2012, 03:40:43 AM
Another question. Some of us asked for TTS to have a means to launch the ABS bleed sequence, without any success up to now. It would be possible for PV to have such capability? Going to the dealer for such a simple thing as bleeding the brakes is a PITA.
Yeah, that and key fob programming would be super. The dealership's charge here for that is $45. Takes about 3 minutes. PowerVision would be a perfect platform for such tasks.
My PowerVision arrived the other day. Haven't installed it on the motor yet. Looking at all the tables (there are lots of them) and comparing to TTS right now.
Quote from: FSG on August 31, 2012, 05:31:08 AM
Can you trade in a TTS on a PV ?
Two different manufacturers and I doubt Dynojet would consider such. Maybe a retailer may do that as promo offer, but again, they'd need a discount from Dynojet to make it viable.
Quote from: FSG on August 31, 2012, 05:31:08 AM
Can you trade in a TTS on a PV ?
:hyst: :hyst:
I'd be all over this.
Pending just a few more valued opinions I'm very close to switching.
The TTS is great, but it 's looking like the PV has the advantage in ease of use and convenience now.
The TTS is great, but it 's looking like the PV has the advantage in ease of use and convenience now.
Except for ONE small thing. Does the PV have a similar screen to the TTS histogram screen? To those of us that ROAD tune and not Dyno tune, that histogram is a deal breaker if the PV can't tell me whether I am hitting all of the needed cells WHILE RIDING THE BIKE. If I have to DL into winPV on a laptop later, to see if I am hitting cells or not... I will pass on the PV.
If the PV DOES have a similar screen to the histogram?... I'm ALL ears. I try to be the VOICE of the DIYer folks. With a monitor, I can hit every data point, on a TTS, in one ride. Rinse and repeat a couple times, and done. When am I done with a PV?
Show me... I've been to Missouri. Someone should post screen shots of how to ROAD tune with a PV. We have ALL seen how to use a Histogram from TTS.
Ron, all you would be doing is trading platforms for tuning. With a TTS AND a Twin Scan, and you can't get a good tune, that PV will NOT do any better at all. All ANY tuner out there does is talk to the ECM, ultimately. If something is making the ECM go whacky, I doubt ANY tuner would make a difference. It NOT that TTS is all of a sudden a crappy product. It just that NOW... there is some actual competition on how to get into that ECM.
Quote from: FSG on August 31, 2012, 05:31:08 AM
Can you trade in a TTS on a PV ?
Funny you ask. Keep an eye open for a promotion we are launching in Sept we are calling "Tune in to Fuel Moto". We are allowing a $150.00 trade in discount off the retail price for those looking to trade up to Power Vision. We will be accepting trade in's on any tuning product including piggy back products and even flash type dongles like SERT & TTS. We will be posting complete information on our website www.fuelmotousa.com (http://www.fuelmotousa.com) the first part of Sept along with some new products we are introducing to the market.
Quote from: wurk_truk on August 31, 2012, 07:20:43 AM
The TTS is great, but it 's looking like the PV has the advantage in ease of use and convenience now.
Except for ONE small thing. Does the PV have a similar screen to the TTS histogram screen? To those of us that ROAD tune and not Dyno tune, that histogram is a deal breaker if the PV can't tell me whether I am hitting all of the needed cells WHILE RIDING THE BIKE. If I have to DL into winPV on a laptop later, to see if I am hitting cells or not... I will pass on the PV.
If the PV DOES have a similar screen to the histogram?... I'm ALL ears. I try to be the VOICE of the DIYer folks. With a monitor, I can hit every data point, on a TTS, in one ride. Rinse and repeat a couple times, and done. When am I done with a PV?
Show me... I've been to Missouri. Someone should post screen shots of how to ROAD tune with a PV. We have ALL seen how to use a Histogram from TTS.
Ron, all you would be doing is trading platforms for tuning. With a TTS AND a Twin Scan, and you can't get a good tune, that PV will NOT do any better at all. All ANY tuner out there does is talk to the ECM, ultimately. If something is making the ECM go whacky, I doubt ANY tuner would make a difference. It NOT that TTS is all of a sudden a crappy product. It just that NOW... there is some actual competition on how to get into that ECM.
I think that question has been addressed already. Having done the vtune thing, not having to mess with a laptop and remote monitor is huge.
And I'm not sure how you can be confident both tuning devices will have the same issues. AFAIK, TTS rewrites the entire ECM code (hence the locking) where as PV uses the stock ECM run time code and just alters the tuning information.
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,54853.msg579691.html#msg579691 (http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,54853.msg579691.html#msg579691)
Quote from: wurk_truk on August 31, 2012, 07:20:43 AM
Except for ONE small thing. Does the PV have a similar screen to the TTS histogram screen? To those of us that ROAD tune and not Dyno tune, that histogram is a deal breaker if the PV can't tell me whether I am hitting all of the needed cells WHILE RIDING THE BIKE. If I have to DL into winPV on a laptop later, to see if I am hitting cells or not... I will pass on the PV.
If the PV DOES have a similar screen to the histogram?... I'm ALL ears. I try to be the VOICE of the DIYer folks. With a monitor, I can hit every data point, on a TTS, in one ride. Rinse and repeat a couple times, and done. When am I done with a PV?
Show me... I've been to Missouri. Someone should post screen shots of how to ROAD tune with a PV. We have ALL seen how to use a Histogram from TTS.
Ron, all you would be doing is trading platforms for tuning. With a TTS AND a Twin Scan, and you can't get a good tune, that PV will NOT do any better at all. All ANY tuner out there does is talk to the ECM, ultimately. If something is making the ECM go whacky, I doubt ANY tuner would make a difference. It NOT that TTS is all of a sudden a crappy product. It just that NOW... there is some actual competition on how to get into that ECM.
Truk, with Power Vision you have the monitor right there with 12 different Log Tuning screens to choose from. You can choose live hits, view each VE table, live deltas, and others. It also displays engine temp, MAP, demanded AF or Lambda. You can also use the gauge screens to display any channel in the ECM on over a dozen layouts including live AFR/Lambda if you have the Auto Tune module. Road tuning could not be easier, especially with the new Beta FW which allows you to pretty much ride and collect data and simply apply the corrections to your tune. This is really good stuff, in a couple weeks when we roll out the production cut of the latest FW I will put together a complete video of this process. It is awesome.
Here is a quick screenshot (a crappy cell phone pic) of one of the AT datalogger screens:
(http://fuelmotousa.com/images/screenPV.jpg)
Quote from: wurk_truk on August 31, 2012, 07:20:43 AM
The TTS is great, but it 's looking like the PV has the advantage in ease of use and convenience now.
Except for ONE small thing. Does the PV have a similar screen to the TTS histogram screen? To those of us that ROAD tune and not Dyno tune, that histogram is a deal breaker if the PV can't tell me whether I am hitting all of the needed cells WHILE RIDING THE BIKE. If I have to DL into winPV on a laptop later, to see if I am hitting cells or not... I will pass on the PV.
If the PV DOES have a similar screen to the histogram?... I'm ALL ears.
I think you're gonna have a tough time finding a helmet or ear muffs that fit, being all ears and all. The screen is small, but yes, it displays a histogram with cells filling as you ride. It's another one of the reasons I'm switching.
Ken
Quote from: wurk_truk on August 31, 2012, 07:20:43 AM
The TTS is great, but it 's looking like the PV has the advantage in ease of use and convenience now.
Except for ONE small thing. Does the PV have a similar screen to the TTS histogram screen? To those of us that ROAD tune and not Dyno tune, that histogram is a deal breaker if the PV can't tell me whether I am hitting all of the needed cells WHILE RIDING THE BIKE.
If the PV DOES have a similar screen to the histogram?... I'm ALL ears. I try to be the VOICE of the DIYer folks.
Show me... I've been to Missouri. Someone should post screen shots of how to ROAD tune with a PV. We have ALL seen how to use a Histogram from TTS.
I will let you know in a week or so. I'll be getting the opportunity to tune a bike with Power Vision, and this was exactly my concern as well. Jamie provided a code that allows a gauge to be displayed, but I don't have the unit yet so I haven't played with this option. I'll be playing with this on a dyno, but I'll be using the on board lambda sensors to populate the ve tables, so I think having this screen is as important in this method as tuning on the street.
The one area that I see as a benefit to us dyi'ers is with the PV you do not have to carry a computer around to tune, but from what I understand the new vci's from TTS will have on board record option that eliminates the need for a computer (although, that also takes away the histogram option mention in the above paragraph). I'll be curious on how affective that little screen is when over the road tuning. I ran a 7" monitor when I was "closed course" tuning, and that didn't always provide a large enough screen to see everything clearly as you were motoring down the road.
I will say, based on my slightly biased opinion, I prefer the complete Mastertune option at this point over what I have seen by playing with the PV system software. I really think that the Mastertune software just seems to be a much better designed system for tuners. The PV seems to be more geared towards making tuning simple for folks that want to do this on their own with limited tuning knowledge (not that there is anything wrong with that). I say this without having tuned a bike with the PV, so we'll see if I still feel this way after my first.
I haven't started tuning yet, but the main reasons for my trying PV is that it doesn't lock out the ECM and it includes a screen with a "Histogram" to aid in filling cells. With TTS, filling cells was a chore without any feedback until uploading the data to the computer. That, and with the many programmable display screens, the PV may find a permanent mount on my motorcycle. It gives information like I get in my Titan truck, only much more (like fuel consumed to the thousandth of a gallon). No more trying to fill the tank precisely when checking gas mileage. The PV does it for you and displays real-time mileage.
I have the new firmware (beta). It makes tuning on every ride quick and easy with no computer. (if desired).
Quote from: Ken R on August 31, 2012, 08:37:28 AM
I have the new firmware (beta). It makes tuning on every ride quick and easy with no computer. (if desired).
Ken,
How long did it take to do your first tune with PV vs after a few tunes?
Bob
Was wonder how and if the PV address's the cruise control speed limit?
Where do you download the latest software ?
Quote from: strokerjlk on August 31, 2012, 11:09:24 AM
Where do you download the latest software ?
The newest production versions of software, firmware, and user guides are available at www.dynojetpowervision.com (http://www.dynojetpowervision.com) under downloads. If anyone would like the latest Beta versions you can email me at jamie@fuelmotousa.com
Quote from: FLTRI on August 31, 2012, 08:43:15 AM
Quote from: Ken R on August 31, 2012, 08:37:28 AM
I have the new firmware (beta). It makes tuning on every ride quick and easy with no computer. (if desired).
Ken,
How long did it take to do your first tune with PV vs after a few tunes?
Bob
Not there yet, Bob. I'm in the study mode right now; and trying to duplicate my TTS cells in PV to see if I can do it.
On that front, I'm finding that the canned PV ignition timing map that Jamie pre-loaded into my PV for me is very close to the ignition tables that Ed and I produced on the dyno. In some areas, the advance was quite aggressive, compared to what I'm running now. But in developing my ignition tables, we advanced until the knock sensor complained . . . and then backed off until it was happy.
Next week, I'll probably hook the PV up to the bike and try a tuning run or two. I have to remove the TTS tune and go back to stock first, since the ECM is locked out with my current tune. But by then, I'll have two initial flashes to try. The first will be the Fuel Moto flash that one gets when the unit is bought from them. The other will include my current table as I am hand entering from my current tune tables.
OH, I watched my friend Dan tune his. He simply accumulated data while on the way to bike practice; and when there, he pushed a couple of buttons to load the newly developed tune. It took only 20 seconds or so. Later, he told me that he accumulated more data on the way home and pushed the buttons again to refine the tune a little more. With the PV, one can collect data at any time while riding normally; the system will create a new map with any changes it deems necessary. Push a couple of buttons, it loads the new data, turn the ignition off and back on 10 seconds later; and VOILA', your running the new tune. No wires, no computer in the tourpac or your backpack, and no rigging up a little monitor to see what's going on.
Quote from: tdkkart on August 31, 2012, 07:04:49 AM
Quote from: FSG on August 31, 2012, 05:31:08 AM
Can you trade in a TTS on a PV ?
:hyst: :hyst:
I'd be all over this.
Pending just a few more valued opinions I'm very close to switching.
The TTS is great, but it 's looking like the PV has the advantage in ease of use and convenience now.
Well I can provide another unbiased opinion. I picked up a PV three weeks ago, after waiting about 3 month for the Mastertune to be available, I went with what I believed to be the next best option. I have absolutely no regrets. It did everything I wanted/needed and more.
Being able to log data without having to bring along a PC is huge, and yes you can monitor map hits easily on the PV display. The on board display is also a big plus. I didn't think I wanted to mount it on the bars originally, but I like it so much it may become a permenant feature. You can monitor anything available from the ECU (including cylinder head temp and intake air temp) as well as PV features. It can monitor up to six parameters/statuses simultaneously, and is infinitely configurable.
Logging data is simple and the monitor screen shows how well you've filled the map. I'm not using the beta software that does the on-board tunes, but tunes are easily generated using Log Tunner and WinPV.
Mine came from Fuel moto with a very good base map for the Stage 1 mods I had made. With every tuning session things just got better. I ended up creating 3 tunes from about 8 or 9 log files ( you can use multiple log files to create a tune) and the bike just ran great...better with each revised tune. I wanted to get to know the hardware and software before I did the Stage 2 mods.
Installed an Andrews 48H cam, new bearings and Fuel Moto 2-1-2 head pipe to get rid of the cat. Once again Fuel moto provided a very good base tune for this configuration. I've run one new tune with only minor changes. I have 4 log sessions to run a second tune when I finish up here. The bike runs great, and the tuning is easy. The 48H cam really woke up the 96" engine, with almost unlimited torque and good power (its a 2010 RKC).
I can't make comparisons to the Mastertune as I haven't used it, but I really like the PV. I thought I might be settling for second best originally, I don't think that way now.
It would be really hard to beat the on board logging and display features. The support from Fuel Moto has also been first class. If you are thinking of doing it I wouldn't hesitate....and definitely consider Fuel Moto as a supplier.
Had a chance to tune a bike this week with the PV, I did not have the latest downloads but it was a basic build and I had more than needed. The tuning software is very easy to understand but like anything new it added some time to the tune. The only complaint I have is that the edits made to the new map and saved first have to be loaded to the touchscreen and then loaded to the bike. I really like the 6 map library that can be stored in the touch screen.
So, it's obvious that a lot of folks like Ken R has NOT road tuned a TTS WITH A MONITOR, so no real comparison, as of yet. I will await Mikes report, because, to me, road tuning, being able to SEE each and every cell clearly and easily while riding is key.
How about some others that have used BOTH. Just us that have used TTS, with a monitor, and those that have used PV isn't really sufficient, because you REALLY don't know the differences until both have been tried by same folks.
My ears are still open. All you PV guys have NOT used a TTS on the road with a 7" monitor, and then there is folks like me that have, as of yet, used the monitor from the PV. Not having to carry a laptop, to me, is nothing. But to others? I feel that ability AND some kind of monitor will surely beat out the deal of using TTS without a laptop. Hands down. TTS without a laptop will take away the ONE thing I love about TTS to start with. Filling all the data points easily.
It is really starting to look like, to me, that the PV has come along very nicely, and is why I ask and wish to learn. Yes, with TTS or TTS2, I will STILL use a laptop, to be able to have my monitor. I also have a Twin Scan for those areas that cannot be reached by the NB O2 sensors. But, the PV with the WB option is starting to look like a nice deal all around.
I feel there are a whole lotta folks that want some simplicity in 'tuning' their bikes. I'm wondering if the two devices will split apart, depending on usages and who is doing the tunes? Folks like Mike and myself, like access to all kinds of crap and play with and use ALL the tables. It HAS dawned upon me that there are tons of folks that do NOT wish for that... the KISS method comes to mind. So, to those that know I AM Mr. Koolaide... fine, but I jumped on the TTS as the best method to go. Maybe this will become an easier method? Time will tell, and............. I'm all eyes too. Post up lotsa screen shots for me to see. Those that wish to see TTS screen shots? There are PLENTY of those in the Sticky sections.
I will tell all of you what............ the first tuner that allows me at decel tables AND timing maps for each gear would get MY vote, but what a time consuming process that would be, huh? I already know, as does Jamie, that these tables exist in the ECM, it is that no one has allowed us access.
Regardless of who I am, or who some of you guys THINK I am, I absolutely love the idea of competition in this field. You guys with dynos have cake to tune with and us strictly DIYers have what? Pie? HAHA! (I like to think that folks like BVBob can still remember street tuning and all the BS that goes with it).
I'm waiting as well for the more "advanced" users and tuners to try Both the PV and the new TTS 2 ... I'm going to be tuning my new RG with a PV ( bike wont be here till OCT ) so it may be a wile before I can compare it to the SESPT that I have been using for the past few years... as for TTS 1 2 3 what ever I don't use them so no comment ... the PV will be all new to me so some time to learn will be needed.. but from what I see the Tech Support for them is 100% ... compared to the HD SESPT support which is non existent ...due to HD not wanting any one to mess with their ECMs in any case
Quote from: BVHOG on August 31, 2012, 07:45:59 PM
Had a chance to tune a bike this week with the PV, I did not have the latest downloads but it was a basic build and I had more than needed. The tuning software is very easy to understand but like anything new it added some time to the tune. The only complaint I have is that the edits made to the new map and saved first have to be loaded to the touchscreen and then loaded to the bike. I really like the 6 map library that can be stored in the touch screen.
Did you try the cruise over 81? If you still have it on the dyno. Can you?
Truk
I have used and own the MT, DTT with wego 3, and now I use the PV with auto tune. I used to ride around with a full size laptop hanging from my neck, that I made out of leather, and I could see very plainly the cells I was populating. I still prefer the pv, as you can set it to show a histogram that shows the number of hits in each cell while you ride. After you are done several sessions of fine tuning (and you are also tuning your timing simultaneously) you are able to look at you lambda values on the screen as you ride, and you can watch exactly what part of any cell is going rich or lean, as it approaches the next cell above, below or beside the cell you are in. If you really want to smooth your map you can make small adjustments to the adjacent cells to homogenize the values within the cell you are working in ( I know this is getting pretty picky).
My map that I have developed with the pv is within 1-2% everywhere- some areas continually come up as needing "0" change. You can do this stuff with other tuning equipment, but not as easily. For problem areas, I get the load on, thumb data logging on for 10 sec, then thumb it off again before letting off the load, so I can simulate steps on a dyno.
My vote is for the pv.
HTH
Oldguy,
My question is: How do you see the little itty bitty numbers on a screen that small?
My setup is a 10.5" screen and that was hard enough to see. :nix:
The time it takes to move your eyes from the road ahead, focus where you are on the screen, watch it change, then get back to the road, you may have traveled a considerable distance...like 1000+ ft?
Pretty scarey experience when you look up at a truck coming the other a way in the lane you drifted into.
Don't ask me how I know. :embarrassed:
Bob
Hey Old Guy... Thanks!!! :scoot: :scoot: :scoot: This IS the feedback I am looking for. Any TTS users do a PV tune, yet?
I wonder if one can blow up the PV screen to be able to work only parts of the tune at a time?
HV... with BOTH TTS AND PV in beta testing for whole new models... I think the SEPST is possibly being left behind? So far... I'm liking everything I hear about the PV. I have a TTS, am used to the TTS, etc. My own bike... most likely stay TTS. But the PV may be a thing I could talk a bud into doing, and that would let me play with one. I'm already checking the TTS Updater for the TTS2 software, as it is.
HAHAHA!!!!!
I would like to see if Dynojet sells keys to a PV, so we could have one dongle and tune multiple bikes. That would be way cool for sure!!!!!
Quote from: FLTRI on September 01, 2012, 08:01:23 PM
Oldguy,
My question is: How do you see the little itty bitty numbers on a screen that small?
My setup is a 10.5" screen and that was hard enough to see. :nix:
The time it takes to move your eyes from the road ahead, focus where you are on the screen, watch it change, then get back to the road, you may have traveled a considerable distance...like 1000+ ft?
Pretty scarey experience when you look up at a truck coming the other a way in the lane you drifted into.
Don't ask me how I know. :embarrassed:
Bob
Bob, I used my Droid cell phone and had no problems filling mine in. It's all about contrast which was greatly improved on vtune when they made the changes to allow setting the color and block fill of the histogram. So it is quite possible to use a smaller display option.
Quote from: wurk_truk on September 01, 2012, 08:01:41 PM
I would like to see if Dynojet sells keys to a PV, so we could have one dongle and tune multiple bikes. That would be way cool for sure!!!!!
They already do that..............
Quote from: Scotty on September 01, 2012, 08:14:43 PM
Quote from: wurk_truk on September 01, 2012, 08:01:41 PM
I would like to see if Dynojet sells keys to a PV, so we could have one dongle and tune multiple bikes. That would be way cool for sure!!!!!
They already do that..............
Hey Scotty... Thanks! Hope you are doing OK!
So, I could buy a PV with the wide band set up, use a key to generate a tune for a bike, then I still have the PV UNMARRIED to anything, and use a key for the next tune.
How much, roughly, are keys?
Quote from: wurk_truk on September 01, 2012, 08:19:12 PM
Quote from: Scotty on September 01, 2012, 08:14:43 PM
Quote from: wurk_truk on September 01, 2012, 08:01:41 PM
I would like to see if Dynojet sells keys to a PV, so we could have one dongle and tune multiple bikes. That would be way cool for sure!!!!!
They already do that..............
Hey Scotty... Thanks! Hope you are doing OK!
So, I could buy a PV with the wide band set up, use a key to generate a tune for a bike, then I still have the PV UNMARRIED to anything, and use a key for the next tune.
How much, roughly, are keys?
http://blogs.dynojet.com/index.php/2012/03/licences-now-available-even-more-flexibility-with-from-the-best-h-d-flash-tuning-system-in-the-world/ (http://blogs.dynojet.com/index.php/2012/03/licences-now-available-even-more-flexibility-with-from-the-best-h-d-flash-tuning-system-in-the-world/)
I'm good mate..............the licenses are $199 each
Actually... that's not a bad price.
Bob
You need the beta version, then enter a code that opens up more tables. The histo turns into a magnified version that shows your position within the individual cell and the actual lambda you are at within the cell. So if you are at a position in the cell that is halfway to the right of centre and halfway up from center (45 degrees up right side) it will show how your effect of the cells above and to the right are influencing the current lambda reading. It's pretty cool watching the cursor float around in the cell, displaying the info.
Has anyone done SE120R engine & Supertrapp 1-2 with PV?
Entering my table data into Powervision.
It isn't hard. One has to be aware that some of the cells in TTS display don't exist in PV. (i.e. intermediate MAP cells of 45, 55, 65, etc) And some in TTS don't exist in PV. (i.e. MAP value of 15). I'm not running the PV Beta just yet. . . it may open up more PV tables.
One that doesn't seem to exist in PV that I liked in TTS is the Spark Temperature Correction that allowed the tuner to program spark based on engine heat. Seemed like a good feature. I wonder if PowerVision takes care of this function automatically. I understand that PV does have a function that automatically reduces the timing in cells if it is too aggressive.
One in PV that I particularly like is the availability to two Throttle Blade Control tables and a Throttle Blade Transition Gear constant that causes the ECM to swith back and forth between the Main and Alternate. TBC table. For cone riding, I like my throttle to act as if it is cable-controlled. Cone riding is always in 1st gear. But for other casual riding, the normal throttle blade control is preferred. No reason to open the throttle any more than the volume/RPM of the engine can ingest.
Most of the table data that came in the "canned" tune included from Fuel Moto is close to my motorcycle's dyno tune data that was done using TTS. The timing was a bit more agressive in the cruising regime . . . but when my motor was tuned last year, we tried aggressive timing and took out 2 to 6 degrees in various places to eliminate pinging. In other regimes, my existing timing was a bit more advanced than the canned tune.
The canned tune had an idle spark advance of 16 degrees. I lowered that to 12 degrees as it exists in my motor now.
I entered my Lambda table precisely as it exists in my motorcycle; closed loop in some areas, open loop in the idle and power regimes. My existing cruising regime Lambda is tuned for gas mileage (.988).
One of the cool things in PV is that the 3-D graphic is always displayed in the lower right corner of the table data screens. If I make a mistake hand entering data, it sticks out like a sore thumb in the 3-D graphic. The graphic can be sized to full screen by dragging the window lines. Cool. Also, if you click on a cell in the table data, a little white cross appears in the 3-D graphic . . . lets you know exactly where you are in the graphic.
NOTE: I am not a technician or professional tuner. I'm an end user that only knows enough to be dangerous. Some of my conclusions may be incorrect. Knowing my own limited skill and experience level, I will not take offense at any professional advice or corrections.
Ken the beta does have some spark temp control. But I have more questions than answers as I am trying to learn and by the way I just come here to ask...
The new tables exposed from BETA where did it get the numbers to populate the tables? Did they come from whats already there on the ECU? If so I get why you have to plug into bike. If not are those numbers from Dynojet? Those tables already are in the bike right?
I can get through and pretty much understand the new tables under Environment.
But where does the bike get the spark adjust by Air Temp? where does it take that measurement? and where did those numbers in that table come from?
Spark adjust by engine temp where does it get that? that table is all ZEROS. Not to concerned with that if all ZEROS
The only one I do understand is Spark Knock by Head Temp I know where and what that temp is but again where did the values come from that are in that table?
I've been unable to install the beta firmware this weekend. The beta "installer" software is reportedly not available on the website.
I have downloaded the most recent beta software, but I think it requires the "installer" to actually put it into the device. I'm anxious to see the tables that are available.
Since I haven't married my PV to the motorcycle yet, so it'll be interesting to see if the tables you mention have data in them.
Ken
Alternative handlebar mount if you don't want to spend $80-100 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003FMUP14/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003FMUP14/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00)
Ken, you may know this but if not.
Hook your power vision up to your computer then open WinPv Then go to top header Power Vision click scroll down to Diagnostic / Test Functions Then to Exit PC Link Mode.
Then you can poke through the power vision unit it self and explore set up gauges etc.
I dont know about it being unmarried but should work I guess.
Quote from: Sam45 on September 03, 2012, 01:58:06 PM
Ken, you may know this but if not.
Hook your power vision up to your computer then open WinPv Then go to top header Power Vision click scroll down to Diagnostic / Test Functions Then to Exit PC Link Mode.
Then you can poke through the power vision unit it self and explore set up gauges etc.
I dont know about it being unmarried but should work I guess.
I did not know. Thanks. The information for that option says that it disconnects the unit from PowerVision. But it must leave power connected so one can play with the unit.
I'm ready to marry to the motorcycle, but would like to see the beta - included tables first. It would answer your question about that table data.
Ken
Ken,
I've had the PV for about a year and I haven't done much with it since the map Jamie provided works pretty damn good.
That being said, I'm thinking about purchasing the wide band auto tuner and begin playing. I've read and re-read the users manual and it looks pretty straight forward. I've got the FM head pipe so I am curious about the Auto tune.
Are you planning to tune without the auto tune? Please keep the board informed as to your progress.
Tre'
Quote from: Sam45 on September 02, 2012, 02:20:01 PM
Ken the beta does have some spark temp control. But I have more questions than answers as I am trying to learn and by the way I just come here to ask...
The new tables exposed from BETA where did it get the numbers to populate the tables? Did they come from whats already there on the ECU? If so I get why you have to plug into bike. If not are those numbers from Dynojet? Those tables already are in the bike right?
I can get through and pretty much understand the new tables under Environment.
But where does the bike get the spark adjust by Air Temp? where does it take that measurement? and where did those numbers in that table come from?
Spark adjust by engine temp where does it get that? that table is all ZEROS. Not to concerned with that if all ZEROS
The only one I do understand is Spark Knock by Head Temp I know where and what that temp is but again where did the values come from that are in that table?
Any new tables that are in the software are simply now "exposed" for the end user to work with. The Spark temp correction by Air temp is based on IAT, Spark temp correction by engine temp is based on the ET sensor.
**Updated** If a table has zero's, it would have been sucked out of the calibration this way and this table will not change (unless you put values in there and reflash) For example: if you extracted a calibration from the ECM and DE Multiplier was not a tune item, when you reflashed the calibration it would leave this table alone.
Quote from: oldguy on September 02, 2012, 06:17:53 AM
Bob
You need the beta version, then enter a code that opens up more tables. The histo turns into a magnified version that shows your position within the individual cell and the actual lambda you are at within the cell. So if you are at a position in the cell that is halfway to the right of centre and halfway up from center (45 degrees up right side) it will show how your effect of the cells above and to the right are influencing the current lambda reading. It's pretty cool watching the cursor float around in the cell, displaying the info.
I have the BETA version, What code do you enter to open up the magnified version of the PV screen?
I have some difficulties with my road king FLHR09 to get a good tunning result with it's new configuration: Arlen Ness Big Sucker Air Filter, HD Headpipe without cat, B&E Superflow 2'' mufflers (Nice sound, good level) and PV (FW beta 1174).
Really interested on how to proceed with EGR (or Charge Dilution Effect). When I tune up (manual method or Autotune), VE increase a lot on rear cyl in low loads area of the map and even at iddle. The motor get some vibrations also betwin 1500 and 2000rpm even if everything seems to be ok (AFF, CLI...).
Waiting for Dynojet release about EGR...
:bf: :banghead:
Quote from: remington007 on September 04, 2012, 10:38:39 AM
I have the BETA version, What code do you enter to open up the magnified version of the PV screen?
You do not need a code, when in datalogger mode (green screen) you can change modes to RT "Real Time" which zooms and slides automatically with the tracer.
Quote from: Sam45 on September 02, 2012, 02:20:01 PM
Ken the beta does have some spark temp control. But I have more questions than answers as I am trying to learn and by the way I just come here to ask...
The new tables exposed from BETA where did it get the numbers to populate the tables? Did they come from whats already there on the ECU? If so I get why you have to plug into bike. If not are those numbers from Dynojet? Those tables already are in the bike right?
I can get through and pretty much understand the new tables under Environment.
But where does the bike get the spark adjust by Air Temp? where does it take that measurement? and where did those numbers in that table come from?
Spark adjust by engine temp where does it get that? that table is all ZEROS. Not to concerned with that if all ZEROS
The only one I do understand is Spark Knock by Head Temp I know where and what that temp is but again where did the values come from that are in that table?
Well, that Spark Table Adjust by Air Temp and Head Temp must reside in the PowerVision, ready to replace the tables in our ECMs.
I finally succeeded in downloading the latest beta installer and beta firmware. The tables are there . . . .
and populated. (all zeros in the Engine Temp table). I always assumed that Engine Temp and Head Temp were the same, but I guess not.
Spark Adjust by Air Temp is peculiar. The range is from 32C to 144C. That's some pretty hot intake air . . . I wouldn't want to be riding my motorcycle in that. Global Warming?
The Adjust by Head Temp is about the same as the Spark Temperature Correction in MasterTune except that the temperature range and resolution is different.
Set your pv to read air intake temp and go for a ride- you'll see that air passing by the front cylinder is a lot warmer than the ambient.( or just open a log in excel and you'll see it all)
Quote from: oldguy on September 04, 2012, 01:13:53 PM
Set your pv to read air intake temp and go for a ride- you'll see that air passing by the front cylinder is a lot warmer than the ambient.( or just open a log in excel and you'll see it all)
Sounds like you might have finally got a tune you like on that 131?
Quote from: oldguy on September 04, 2012, 01:13:53 PM
Set your pv to read air intake temp and go for a ride- you'll see that air passing by the front cylinder is a lot warmer than the ambient.( or just open a log in excel and you'll see it all)
I thought IAT was the air that is actually being sucked into the throttle body from outside air (ambient air temperature).
I once had a Vance and Hinds Draco air cleaner, but it has no backing plate. The air being drawn into that air cleaner is mostly engine heated. I measured that air at 145 F degrees or higher.
Sold it and installed a Big Sucker. At least now the intake air is truly ambient air temperature, maybe slightly heated as it passes through the throttle body and manifold.
So the Spark adjust by Air Temp isn't ambient air temp? 144C = almost 300 F.
:oops:
So,
A person can refine the map that comes from Fuelmoto by doing a data log?
Asking as I am going to get one ASAP.
Thanks
Mark
just a quick question is anyone else having trouble bringing up the acr control on the tunes for 2012 softail i am running the beta firware have updated the tune but am unable to get this to come up i have changed the heads on my bike and now have manual decomps and now have the engine light on
Well, we had a wedding ceremony down in my workshop this evening. Actually, first had a separation (restored the original factory data with TTS) and THEN had the wedding ceremony. My PV is now married to my motorcycle.
It was easier than I expected. So far, the unit is very intuitive. It guides you through the process, asking "yes /no" at every applicable point and explains the consequences/results. I'm pretty impressed with the user interface so far.
Before doing anything else, I started the motorcycle, let it warm up, and twisted the throttle a bit. It sputtered a few times and hesitated a few times, just like it did when I restored the original map when I had to take it in for warranty service. I did this to confirm that the motorcycle is indeed running the original map and doesn't like it.
After the PowerVision marriage, I loaded the ECM with the tune on which I've been working (off and on) for the past few days. It's the Fuel Moto tune, modified to look like my existing tune . . . modified cell by cell in all tables that are the same in both units. Started the motorcycle and let it warm up. Twisted the throttle a few times . . . it seemed to feel the same as before restoring the original map.
So now, I'm studying about how to do a data log and create changes in the map, flashing the ECM. I'm anxious to see the green screen with cells. In my workshop, I can only simulate a few riding conditions to see what it thinks of the current tune. After I get confidence with that, I'll go ride around a bit, log some data, and compare what I have to what the motorcycle wants.
One thing for sure, this thing is fun. The user interface and the many features make it so.
I'm using the beta software as well. It is some cool stuff, but I have a question. When using the "auto tune" button the default number of "hits" to use when tuning is 5. That seems like an awful low number to get good data. I don't want to raise it so high that it makes it difficult to gather data, but I do want the data to be good. Do you think I should use 10? 20? 30? What do you think would be a good number to use?
In the Beta software document there is a warning that if you don't see
a file that looks like this ""10-FB4-JHMKORL.stk" or this "AMAEF000AA000xxx-10-FB4-XJMT6GH-fb089aa2.stk" then do NOT proceed with installing and using this firmware.
I currently have a file in my documents ANBAF000AA003926-11-KB4-9XAUVCL-8E2BC5CA.STK. I'm paranoid to proceed as this file is "like" what is listed but not exact.
Can I proceed, if not can anyone provide me guidance on what I need to do to proceed.
Tre'
Quote from: strokerjlk on September 04, 2012, 04:07:38 PM
Quote from: oldguy on September 04, 2012, 01:13:53 PM
Set your pv to read air intake temp and go for a ride- you'll see that air passing by the front cylinder is a lot warmer than the ambient.( or just open a log in excel and you'll see it all)
Sounds like you might have finally got a tune you like on that 131?
Hi Jim
It runs really well now, runs smooth as silk. I don't know if the power is optimized w/o a dyno, but I don't care cause it pulls hard and gets good milage for what it is! :teeth:
Quote from: Ken R on September 04, 2012, 08:12:16 PM
Well, we had a wedding ceremony down in my workshop this evening. Actually, first had a separation (restored the original factory data with TTS) and THEN had the wedding ceremony. My PV is now married to my motorcycle.
It was easier than I expected. So far, the unit is very intuitive. It guides you through the process, asking "yes /no" at every applicable point and explains the consequences/results. I'm pretty impressed with the user interface so far.
Before doing anything else, I started the motorcycle, let it warm up, and twisted the throttle a bit. It sputtered a few times and hesitated a few times, just like it did when I restored the original map when I had to take it in for warranty service. I did this to confirm that the motorcycle is indeed running the original map and doesn't like it.
After the PowerVision marriage, I loaded the ECM with the tune on which I've been working (off and on) for the past few days. It's the Fuel Moto tune, modified to look like my existing tune . . . modified cell by cell in all tables that are the same in both units. Started the motorcycle and let it warm up. Twisted the throttle a few times . . . it seemed to feel the same as before restoring the original map.
So now, I'm studying about how to do a data log and create changes in the map, flashing the ECM. I'm anxious to see the green screen with cells. In my workshop, I can only simulate a few riding conditions to see what it thinks of the current tune. After I get confidence with that, I'll go ride around a bit, log some data, and compare what I have to what the motorcycle wants.
One thing for sure, this thing is fun. The user interface and the many features make it so.
So, when you run a data log on the PowerVision, doesn't the device take that info, and by using the interface/ touch screen buttons allow that log info to integrate with the map, and change with the new data?
I am getting a PowerVision and want to understand the process myself.
Thanks
Quote from: oldguy on September 05, 2012, 05:29:30 AM
Quote from: strokerjlk on September 04, 2012, 04:07:38 PM
Quote from: oldguy on September 04, 2012, 01:13:53 PM
Set your pv to read air intake temp and go for a ride- you'll see that air passing by the front cylinder is a lot warmer than the ambient.( or just open a log in excel and you'll see it all)
Sounds like you might have finally got a tune you like on that 131?
Hi Jim
It runs really well now, runs smooth as silk. I don't know if the power is optimized w/o a dyno, but I don't care cause it pulls hard and gets good milage for what it is! :teeth:
that tells me a lot right there :idea:
you have been through just about every tuning device on the market ,with that ole girl! glad to hear it :up:
Quote from: mgmmgm on September 04, 2012, 07:51:19 PM
:oops:
So,
A person can refine the map that comes from Fuelmoto by doing a data log?
Asking as I am going to get one ASAP.
Thanks
Mark
Any PV tune can be fine tuned using datalogs and the PV log tuner software. There are step by step instructions on our website at http://fuelmotousa.com/PVlogtuner.htm (http://fuelmotousa.com/PVlogtuner.htm)
As discussed in other threads here, in the next several weeks there will be a significant firmware update that allows you to populate and apply tune corrections completely with the PV display unit, no computer required. We have this firmware/software available in Beta form for those interested and there are many out there running it.
Quote from: LJfxst on September 04, 2012, 08:11:36 PM
just a quick question is anyone else having trouble bringing up the acr control on the tunes for 2012 softail i am running the beta firware have updated the tune but am unable to get this to come up i have changed the heads on my bike and now have manual decomps and now have the engine light on
It all depends on which Beta FW level you are running, we are moving some of the less significant tune items to the PV display. If ACR is not a tune item under Limits & Switches simply go to your PV display and go to "Quick Tune" by going to Settings>Enter Code>319247 and you can toggle ACR off along with many other options.
Quote from: Tre_11 FLHX on September 05, 2012, 12:48:52 AM
In the Beta software document there is a warning that if you don't see
a file that looks like this ""10-FB4-JHMKORL.stk" or this "AMAEF000AA000xxx-10-FB4-XJMT6GH-fb089aa2.stk" then do NOT proceed with installing and using this firmware.
I currently have a file in my documents ANBAF000AA003926-11-KB4-9XAUVCL-8E2BC5CA.STK. I'm paranoid to proceed as this file is "like" what is listed but not exact.
Can I proceed, if not can anyone provide me guidance on what I need to do to proceed.
Tre'
Your .stk is backed up you are good to go :)
Quote from: hogsty on September 04, 2012, 08:52:34 PM
I'm using the beta software as well. It is some cool stuff, but I have a question. When using the "auto tune" button the default number of "hits" to use when tuning is 5. That seems like an awful low number to get good data. I don't want to raise it so high that it makes it difficult to gather data, but I do want the data to be good. Do you think I should use 10? 20? 30? What do you think would be a good number to use?
We have been testing the Beta FW "as delivered" with no adjustments to the defaults or parameters to get a feel for how the end user will be using it and it has been working very well. The more hits the better for a given cell, and it does not take long to get gather data.
Exact ! AT works perfectly. New map tuned within 3/4h. Min hit is low but many hits are rejected so only good hits are stored.
:wink:
Just one remark about default parameters: Min MAP = 20kPa. So no VE for 10kPa column (decel). Why ? And what is the procedure to set this column ?
My bike as got poping at decel betwin 2000 and 1500rpm. What can I do about VE ? I have already apply 75% on DE table to enrich a little bit. Still some poping.
:scratch:
Quote from: hdmanillac on September 05, 2012, 12:03:34 PM
Exact ! AT works perfectly. New map tuned within 3/4h. Min hit is low but many hits are rejected so only good hits are stored.
:wink:
Just one remark about default parameters: Min MAP = 20kPa. So no VE for 10kPa column (decel). Why ? And what is the procedure to set this column ?
My bike as got poping at decel betwin 2000 and 1500rpm. What can I do about VE ? I have already apply 75% on DE table to enrich a little bit. Still some poping.
:scratch:
Thank you for the feedback, great to hear the PV worked well for you. There are different characteristics and requirements in the 10Kpa of the calibration compared to normal closed loop operation, I recommend if needed making adjustments to this column manually if necessary. Decel popping can happen from several factors, most common are lean or rich mixtures and exhaust leaks, and exhaust design itself plays a huge part as well. If a bike has decel popping we normally start by setting the Lambda/AF table to open loop in this region, you can experiment with these values to see which works best. As you noted you can also change the Decel Enleanment table which works especially well if you get a quick pop when rolling off the throttle. You may also need to adjust VE in this column. You simply need to find the best balance between these tables that works best for your setup.
This thing is cool beans.
I went out on a 30 minute tuning run (even though the temperature outside is over 100 degrees right now). The Autotune is very intuitive. I read the beta documentation first, and then went down to the shop and followed the instructions on the PV screen. Pre-reading the documentation helped, but not absolutely necessary, the on-screen instructions would have sufficed.
Watched the little cells fill at first, then there became too many to watch. So then I started looking for areas/regimes to fill. Got many dozens of hits in the normal riding areas. Also got dozens at high RPM with lower MAP values. I don't like riding my brakes to get cells filled and we don't have any hills around here.
I changed my settings to require 15 hits . . . 5 just didn't seem like enough. Probably should have also changed the Min RPM to 900 and Min Map to 10, as well; just to see if I could fill some of those cells.
Remember, my running file for tuning is my cell-by-cell hand-copied dyno tune from last year. Only changes to the motorcycle since dyno are my home made lathe-turned open end caps for my SuperTraps. All else has remained constant. So I was expecting some differences in VEs.
The results?
For the front cylinder, at least 30 of the VE cells that contained data required NO CHANGE AT ALL! The vast majority of those that did require changes needed from -.8 to +3.8 units with a three cells calling for -6.5, -7.5, and -9.7. All in all very close, I thought.
For the rear cylinder, almost all the cell differences were from 4.0 units to 12.0 units, all clustered in the 1,500 to 3,500 with MAPs from 35 to 60. I found that odd, but I'm going with it. I flashed the ECU with the new tune.
I need to read up to make sure that my lambda table, PE mode, etc. all went back to my pre-programmed values.
I'll do another tuning run for the 25 miles to motorcycle practice this evening, and yet another for the ride home. I'm expecting to see that the suggested VE changes reduce towards zero with subsequent tuning runs.
OH, I used .574 gallons of gas for this tuning run. :chop:
Quote from: Ken R on September 05, 2012, 01:06:51 PM
This thing is cool beans.
I went out on a 30 minute tuning run (even though the temperature outside is over 100 degrees right now). The Autotune is very intuitive. I read the beta documentation first, and then went down to the shop and followed the instructions on the PV screen. Pre-reading the documentation helped, but not absolutely necessary, the on-screen instructions would have sufficed.
Watched the little cells fill at first, then there became too many to watch. So then I started looking for areas/regimes to fill. Got many dozens of hits in the normal riding areas. Also got dozens at high RPM with lower MAP values. I don't like riding my brakes to get cells filled and we don't have any hills around here.
I changed my settings to require 15 hits . . . 5 just didn't seem like enough. Probably should have also changed the Min RPM to 900 and Min Map to 10, as well; just to see if I could fill some of those cells.
Remember, my running file for tuning is my cell-by-cell hand-copied dyno tune from last year. Only changes to the motorcycle since dyno are my home made lathe-turned open end caps for my SuperTraps. All else has remained constant. So I was expecting some differences in VEs.
The results?
For the front cylinder, at least 30 of the VE cells that contained data required NO CHANGE AT ALL! The vast majority of those that did require changes needed from -.8 to +3.8 units with a three cells calling for -6.5, -7.5, and -9.7. All in all very close, I thought.
For the rear cylinder, almost all the cell differences were from 4.0 units to 12.0 units, all clustered in the 1,500 to 3,500 with MAPs from 35 to 60. I found that odd, but I'm going with it. I flashed the ECU with the new tune.
I need to read up to make sure that my lambda table, PE mode, etc. all went back to my pre-programmed values.
I'll do another tuning run for the 25 miles to motorcycle practice this evening, and yet another for the ride home. I'm expecting to see that the suggested VE changes reduce towards zero with subsequent tuning runs.
OH, I used .574 gallons of gas for this tuning run. :chop:
Pretty cool isnt it?, glad to hear PV is working well for you. Thank you for the great write up and support.
Jamie, I haven't found it yet, but is there a way to save the histogram and save it on my computer for future reference (short of taking a picture of it while on the motorcycle and saving the jpeg?).
Quote from: Jamie Long on September 05, 2012, 07:49:01 AM
Quote from: LJfxst on September 04, 2012, 08:11:36 PM
just a quick question is anyone else having trouble bringing up the acr control on the tunes for 2012 softail i am running the beta firware have updated the tune but am unable to get this to come up i have changed the heads on my bike and now have manual decomps and now have the engine light on
It all depends on which Beta FW level you are running, we are moving some of the less significant tune items to the PV display. If ACR is not a tune item under Limits & Switches simply go to your PV display and go to "Quick Tune" by going to Settings>Enter Code>319247 and you can toggle ACR off along with many other options.
thanks heaps for your help jamie with this all sorted now cheers
Quote from: Ken R on September 05, 2012, 02:46:32 PM
Jamie, I haven't found it yet, but is there a way to save the histogram and save it on my computer for future reference (short of taking a picture of it while on the motorcycle and saving the jpeg?).
There are a couple ways you can review your data. PV stores the base .pvv file as well as the new "corrected" .pvv which can be retrieved in WinPv by going to Get Log. Also, when you are on the Auto Logger (green) screen you can start/stop logs to simply review or you can use them in PV Log Tuner software if you would like correct your tunes "the old fashioned way" rather than exporting your corrections right on the PV display.
Post 50 and 58 are still waiting for a reply. I understand if you don't want to answer on an open forum. Can you send me a PM?
Quote from: hrdtail78 on September 05, 2012, 07:23:08 PM
Post 50 and 58 are still waiting for a reply. I understand if you don't want to answer on an open forum. Can you send me a PM?
The ability to adjust the cruise control limits has never came up, and I have not had anyone ask until now. I would need to get with an engineer on that one.
Quote from: hdmanillac on September 04, 2012, 11:31:53 AM
I have some difficulties with my road king FLHR09 to get a good tunning result with it's new configuration: Arlen Ness Big Sucker Air Filter, HD Headpipe without cat, B&E Superflow 2'' mufflers (Nice sound, good level) and PV (FW beta 1174).
Really interested on how to proceed with EGR (or Charge Dilution Effect). When I tune up (manual method or Autotune), VE increase a lot on rear cyl in low loads area of the map and even at iddle. The motor get some vibrations also betwin 1500 and 2000rpm even if everything seems to be ok (AFF, CLI...).
Waiting for Dynojet release about EGR...
:bf: :banghead:
Any reply for this question ?
:idunno:
Thanks.
Quote from: hdmanillac on September 05, 2012, 10:04:03 PM
Quote from: hdmanillac on September 04, 2012, 11:31:53 AM
I have some difficulties with my road king FLHR09 to get a good tunning result with it's new configuration: Arlen Ness Big Sucker Air Filter, HD Headpipe without cat, B&E Superflow 2'' mufflers (Nice sound, good level) and PV (FW beta 1174).
Really interested on how to proceed with EGR (or Charge Dilution Effect). When I tune up (manual method or Autotune), VE increase a lot on rear cyl in low loads area of the map and even at iddle. The motor get some vibrations also betwin 1500 and 2000rpm even if everything seems to be ok (AFF, CLI...).
Waiting for Dynojet release about EGR...
:bf: :banghead:
Any reply for this question ?
:idunno:
Thanks.
For tuning and map support you can contact Dynojet at pvtech@dynojet.com or if you are running one of our maps you are welcome to contact us thru our website or on our tech line.
Already done. I contacted Dynojet few weeks ago and Dan answered me that EGR is not the priority at the moment because of Autotune developpement...
:cry:
I think my bike will return stock again while waiting for a dynojet release about EGR...
:fish:
Thanks.
Quote from: hdmanillac on September 06, 2012, 12:10:29 PM
Already done. I contacted Dynojet few weeks ago and Dan answered me that EGR is not the priority at the moment because of Autotune developpement...
:cry:
I think my bike will return stock again while waiting for a dynojet release about EGR...
:fish:
Thanks.
Actually, EGR is already in there if you using Beta 1174 or later FW (if you need a copy just let me know). If you update your tune via WinPv, Charge Dillution Effect (EGR) is now an active tune item. However note this is not generally a table that we would adjust with your combination (i.e stock bike with slip ons, stage 1 air cleaner) and there may be something else going on with your combination or tune. As Dan noted there are some additional tune features and enhancements that are already in the works that we will put more focus on after the production version of the automated PV Auto Tune is released here shortly.
I would like to make a few changes to CLB but dont see that option in the Tune Items list..
Quote from: runamuck on September 06, 2012, 02:47:02 PM
I would like to make a few changes to CLB but dont see that option in the Tune Items list..
If you have a Lambda based calibration it does not have CLB, you will adjust your Lambda target directly in the Fuel/Lambda table.
Quote from: Jamie Long on September 06, 2012, 12:46:19 PM
Quote from: hdmanillac on September 06, 2012, 12:10:29 PM
Already done. I contacted Dynojet few weeks ago and Dan answered me that EGR is not the priority at the moment because of Autotune developpement...
:cry:
I think my bike will return stock again while waiting for a dynojet release about EGR...
:fish:
Thanks.
Actually, EGR is already in there if you using Beta 1174 or later FW (if you need a copy just let me know). If you update your tune via WinPv, Charge Dillution Effect (EGR) is now an active tune item. However note this is not generally a table that we would adjust with your combination (i.e stock bike with slip ons, stage 1 air cleaner) and there may be something else going on with your combination or tune. As Dan noted there are some additional tune features and enhancements that are already in the works that we will put more focus on after the production version of the automated PV Auto Tune is released here shortly.
Maybe you are right, there is something wrong with the stage 1 config.
I'm already using the Beta 1174 FW and I've tried to reduce EGR on rear cylinder betwin 750rpm and 2250rpm and there is an improvement. But without information about EGR I can't do accurate tunning. I would like to know how EGR parameter is taken into account in fuel metering or in VE calculation.
:nix:
Perhaps this question has gone unnoticed between so many others.
Quote from: emece on August 31, 2012, 03:40:43 AM
Another question. Some of us asked for TTS to have a means to launch the ABS bleed sequence, without any success up to now. It would be possible for PV to have such capability? Going to the dealer for such a simple thing as bleeding the brakes is a PITA.
Jamie are there lamba based maps for cable drive bikes or are fbw bikes the ones who gets the good stuff.
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk 2
Playing with my PV
Did the speedo correction. Now it's within a needle's width as compared to my Zumo.
Went on a 55 mile logging run today. It was over 95 degrees, but I wanted to see what a log looks like and also see the gauges screens that I'd set up. Headed out on Interstate 30 towards Greenville and back.
Set up one of the several programmable displays to show: Instantaneous MPG, Trip MPG, Fuel Consumption, MAP, and Engine Temperature. Learned some stuff.
1. A little wind makes a big difference in MAP and MPG. So do slight up and downgrades.
On the way out with a little 10-15 mph tailwind, MAP was between 50 and 65. Instantaneous MPG was between 41 and 49 MPG with a constant cruise-controlled 70 mph in 6th gear. Riding in traffic increased the MPG and decreased the MAP. I thought the mileage was too high, I don't usually get better than 42 mpg on my gas mileage runs.
On the way back into the headwind, MAP was between 60 and 75! Instantaneous MPG was from 37 to 40 mpg. Upgrades/downgrades/Interstate traffic affected both parameters more than I though they would.
Total trip miles per gallon was 41.7, in the range that I've been measuring using the ole top-off-the-tank method. Maybe this stuff is accurate after all. Need to go on a full tank ride to see how it compares to the PV. My trip-riding partner has already confirmed the gas consumption feature to be highly accurate.
2. 70 MPH cruising Engine Temp was 246 degrees F (give or take 5 degrees for on the way out versus on the way back.
3. Seeing real-time accurate fuel consumption will have several uses beyond playing with the motorcycle.
I'm not running the AutoTune module yet, just the basic PV. With the AT unit, I should be able to see the measured AFR as compared to the AFR command from the ECM.
There are few things that I've had more fun with on my motorcycle than the PV. Still haven't played with the timing; it is as set on the dyno 1-1/2 years ago.
The PV created a big log file.. I downloaded it from the PV into my desktop. It's in CSV format; I can look at it in table form using Excel. Would like to figure out how to create a graph with several selected parameters. I'm an Excel dummy. Never use it for much of anything. Wonder if there's another way. The Power Vision Log tuner won't open the file; it's not a .pvv file. Haven't found any help files yet for the Log Tuner.
You need MegaLogViewer to open .csv files from PV.
:up:
Quote from: Ken R on September 07, 2012, 08:44:34 PM
Playing with my PV
The Power Vision Log tuner won't open the file; it's not a .pvv file. Haven't found any help files yet for the Log Tuner.
You need to create a base value file (pvv) from your current tune before you can go any further with PV Log Tuner.
This is from the Fuel Moto web site:
2. Create a Value File. Open your calibration (tune File) in the WinPV software and create a Power Vision value file under File/Save Selected Values that has the following tables: VE front, VE rear, AFR or Lambda fuel table, and Front and Rear Spark tables. You will need to switch the software user level to Pro by going to Setup/Options/User Level in WinPv
Here is a link to the page:
http://www.fuelmotousa.com/PVlogtuner.htm (http://www.fuelmotousa.com/PVlogtuner.htm)
After you create the pvv file you can open the log files and generate a new tune following the directions on the web page.
I just finished my first auto tune basic, much simpler than using my TTS. One thing I noticed was the data log (green screen) kept switching from green to red during the entire ride. warning would display something about VE=0. Normal?
I reflashed the tune and my bike is running very good and mileage has increased. I was getting 38 MPG. After I flashed the auto tune learned data, I topped of the tank and rode for 112 miles, then topped of the tank again with 2.5 gallons of gas. Almost 45 MPG. Not running hot either. My ride was was 112 miles, running between 70-80mph for 2/3 of it.
I tried hard to get her to ping, never heard it.
I really like the gauge feature, the economy one was pretty damn close.
So far I'm pleased!
Tre'
Mine switched green to red with information a lot, too. It came and went quickly, though. Hard to tell what it was trying to tell me. It does auto-save periodically, . I saw some "saving" information in a flash of red screen often. Didn't seem to matter, though. Over the course of 30 minutes, it must have gotten thousands of hits.
Ken
Ken,
I was able to catch a photo of it.(http://i421.photobucket.com/albums/pp299/mzodarg/pv-1.jpg)
I'm I reading correctly? 821 idle at 46.5kpa? That's quit a bit of load. Why is the curser on 50?
Quote from: Tre_11 FLHX on September 08, 2012, 09:59:27 AM
I just finished my first auto tune basic, much simpler than using my TTS. One thing I noticed was the data log (green screen) kept switching from green to red during the entire ride. warning would display something about VE=0. Normal?
I reflashed the tune and my bike is running very good and mileage has increased. I was getting 38 MPG. After I flashed the auto tune learned data, I topped of the tank and rode for 112 miles, then topped of the tank again with 2.5 gallons of gas. Almost 45 MPG. Not running hot either. My ride was was 112 miles, running between 70-80mph for 2/3 of it.
I tried hard to get her to ping, never heard it.
I really like the gauge feature, the economy one was pretty damn close.
So far I'm pleased!
Tre,
Just used the Beta version this past week as well, and very pleased. That flashing from green to red is due to a particular parameter changing too quickly for it to log. Whatever that parameter is will flash on the screen along with the red background. VE, MAP, etc.....it's normal operation.
Jeff
Tre'
hrdtail,
Might be because I was stopped so I could shoot a pic of the screen. If that doesn't make sense, then I'll guess with you.
Tre'
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on September 07, 2012, 08:42:15 PM
Jamie are there lamba based maps for cable drive bikes or are fbw bikes the ones who gets the good stuff.
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk 2
The tune items vary by build/version level, you can update your tune thru WinPv to show the latest tables. There are going to be more tables in the TBW bikes as they are related to throttle blade etc.. but most of the other stuff is exposed in the cable bike cal's as well. As far as the fuel table itself you can easily switch between AFR and Lambda in WinPv.
Quote from: Tre_11 FLHX on September 08, 2012, 09:59:27 AM
I just finished my first auto tune basic, much simpler than using my TTS. One thing I noticed was the data log (green screen) kept switching from green to red during the entire ride. warning would display something about VE=0. Normal?
I reflashed the tune and my bike is running very good and mileage has increased. I was getting 38 MPG. After I flashed the auto tune learned data, I topped of the tank and rode for 112 miles, then topped of the tank again with 2.5 gallons of gas. Almost 45 MPG. Not running hot either. My ride was was 112 miles, running between 70-80mph for 2/3 of it.
I tried hard to get her to ping, never heard it.
I really like the gauge feature, the economy one was pretty damn close.
So far I'm pleased!
Tre'
The red screen will flash as data is filtered, and the display varies based on which Mode you are in Auto Logger (Auto Tune mode) Glad to hear it is working well for you :)
Quote from: hrdtail78 on September 08, 2012, 08:24:03 PM
I'm I reading correctly? 821 idle at 46.5kpa? That's quit a bit of load. Why is the curser on 50?
Display wise the tracer interpolates the columns and cells, it is simply using the ECM data bus. Nothing wrong with idle Kpa in the 40's, however we do not generally set idle below 950 RPM.
I was meaning more of a MAP based VE tabe vs. TP
I don't have a PV unit right now I just wana know for future refrence
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk 2
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on September 10, 2012, 12:59:29 PM
I was meaning more of a MAP based VE tabe vs. TP
I don't have a PV unit right now I just wana know for future refrence
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk 2
Currently only the Level 009 and 44 TBW calibrations are MAP based
Quote from: Jamie Long on September 10, 2012, 01:05:44 PM
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on September 10, 2012, 12:59:29 PM
I was meaning more of a MAP based VE tabe vs. TP
I don't have a PV unit right now I just wana know for future refrence
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk 2
Currently only the Level 009 and 44 TBW calibrations are MAP based
Will there be any 205 lambda base maps?
I have a few sepst 205 lambda tuned bikes running around.( open loop and working out nice)
Have you tested any 205 lambda bikes in open loop?
Closed loop with wide bands ?
Narrow band closed loop? (12mm or 18mm)
As I'm tuning my scoot with AT, i wanted to see what the VE were doing. It appears the rear cylinder is maxing out at various points. The CI is set at 112, should I take the cubes higher, say 117?
Rear
(http://i421.photobucket.com/albums/pp299/mzodarg/rearVE.png)
Front
(http://i421.photobucket.com/albums/pp299/mzodarg/frontVE.png)
QuoteDisplay wise the tracer interpolates the columns and cells, it is simply using the ECM data bus. Nothing wrong with idle Kpa in the 40's, however we do not generally set idle below 950 RPM.
Jamie,
I'm working off a map that you sent, should I raise the idle rpm?
Tre'
Quote from: Jamie Long on September 10, 2012, 01:05:44 PM
Currently only the Level 009 and 44 TBW calibrations are MAP based
[/quote]
What about the level 218 files that are stock in the 2009 Touring bikes.
Supposedly they were a Lambda based calibration and we ended up having to flash over them with level 205 files.
So what happens when you read the stock 218 file and edit that is it a Lambda calibration or a AFR ?
Quote from: strokerjlk on September 10, 2012, 04:25:39 PM
Will there be any 205 lambda base maps?
I have a few sepst 205 lambda tuned bikes running around.( open loop and working out nice)
Have you tested any 205 lambda bikes in open loop?
Closed loop with wide bands ?
Narrow band closed loop? (12mm or 18mm)
All of our 205 cals are TPS X RPM. They are closed loop maps using the factory sensors, however one could certainly configure them in open loop if desired. We do not
"currently" have the ability to run closed loop with Widebands.
Quote from: Tre_11 FLHX on September 10, 2012, 11:32:32 PM
As I'm tuning my scoot with AT, i wanted to see what the VE were doing. It appears the rear cylinder is maxing out at various points. The CI is set at 112, should I take the cubes higher, say 117?
Quote from: Tre_11 FLHX on September 10, 2012, 11:42:25 PM
Jamie,
I'm working off a map that you sent, should I raise the idle rpm?
Tre'
I would raise the displacement constant to 118", and then remove 5% from the VE tables from the area's that are not maxed (127.5) which should keep your tune pretty close. Run the Auto Logger a couple times, check your delta's and you should be right there.
I would bump the idle up to 950 and they generally respond better
Quote from: Scotty on September 11, 2012, 12:37:29 AM
What about the level 218 files that are stock in the 2009 Touring bikes.
Supposedly they were a Lambda based calibration and we ended up having to flash over them with level 205 files.
So what happens when you read the stock 218 file and edit that is it a Lambda calibration or a AFR ?
Yes 218 cals are Lambda based. You can read the ECM, extract it, and start tuning no problem
Quote from: Jamie Long on September 11, 2012, 09:29:42 AM
Quote from: strokerjlk on September 10, 2012, 04:25:39 PM
Will there be any 205 lambda base maps?
I have a few sepst 205 lambda tuned bikes running around.( open loop and working out nice)
Have you tested any 205 lambda bikes in open loop?
Closed loop with wide bands ?
Narrow band closed loop? (12mm or 18mm)
All of our 205 cals are TPS X RPM. They are closed loop maps using the factory sensors, however one could certainly configure them in open loop if desired. We do not "currently" have the ability to run closed loop with Widebands.
Closed loop with widebands. NOW your talkin! Oops! broadbands-Sorry Steve!
Jamie,
just finished a 35 mile run with the CI set at 118. Only had one celll on the rear max out at 50 4000 rpm's.
Tre'
Quote from: Jamie Long on September 11, 2012, 09:29:42 AM
Quote from: strokerjlk on September 10, 2012, 04:25:39 PM
Will there be any 205 lambda base maps?
I have a few sepst 205 lambda tuned bikes running around.( open loop and working out nice)
Have you tested any 205 lambda bikes in open loop?
Closed loop with wide bands ?
Narrow band closed loop? (12mm or 18mm)
All of our 205 cals are TPS X RPM. They are closed loop maps using the factory sensors, however one could certainly configure them in open loop if desired. We do not "currently" have the ability to run closed loop with Widebands.
Thanks . I thought I read the wideband closed loop was included in the next update. :embarrassed:
Scotty let me know how the 218 cal works out
In AFR table of TTS CTD044-03 map we can see a 15kPa column with lambda value below open loop. This column does not exist in SEPST 044AAG003 or DPV so impossible to modify.
Is there any reason ?
:scratch:
Quote from: Tre_11 FLHX on September 08, 2012, 06:49:40 PM
Ken,
I was able to catch a photo of it.(http://i421.photobucket.com/albums/pp299/mzodarg/pv-1.jpg)
how do I get this screen? what's it called in the gauges?
Quote from: hdmanillac on September 12, 2012, 10:39:06 PM
In AFR table of TTS CTD044-03 map we can see a 15kPa column with lambda value below open loop. This column does not exist in SEPST 044AAG003 or DPV so impossible to modify.
Is there any reason ?
:scratch:
Not exactly sure what you are asking here
Quote from: mayor on September 17, 2012, 07:47:39 AM
Quote from: Tre_11 FLHX on September 08, 2012, 06:49:40 PM
Ken,
I was able to catch a photo of it.(http://i421.photobucket.com/albums/pp299/mzodarg/pv-1.jpg)
how do I get this screen? what's it called in the gauges?
This is the Auto Logger "green" screen which is in the Beta FW I emailed you. There is a similar screen in the production firmware you can access by going to Settings>Enter Code>319245 and there are full instructions for this process at http://fuelmotousa.com/PVlogtuner.htm (http://fuelmotousa.com/PVlogtuner.htm) If you need any assistance just let me know
Quote from: Jamie Long on September 17, 2012, 08:03:26 AM
Quote from: hdmanillac on September 12, 2012, 10:39:06 PM
In AFR table of TTS CTD044-03 map we can see a 15kPa column with lambda value below open loop. This column does not exist in SEPST 044AAG003 or DPV so impossible to modify.
Is there any reason ?
:scratch:
Not exactly sure what you are asking here
As you can see, TTS CTD044-03-A0 AFR table shows a 15kPa open loop and a 20kPa closed loop columns where SEPST 044AAG003 only shows a 20kPa closed loop column. These 2 cals are for same bike, same year, same config.
And Power Vision with my stock cal is like SEPST without 15kPa column open loop.
But when I autotune my bike, during decel, map is below 20kPa (around 5 kPa) and no VE are shaped below the 20kPa column.
:scratch:
[attachment removed after 60 days by system]
Is it popping on decell? It is my understanding that what the value is in the 20 or 15 column just continued to the left
Quote from: hdmanillac on September 17, 2012, 09:13:03 AM
Quote from: Jamie Long on September 17, 2012, 08:03:26 AM
Quote from: hdmanillac on September 12, 2012, 10:39:06 PM
In AFR table of TTS CTD044-03 map we can see a 15kPa column with lambda value below open loop. This column does not exist in SEPST 044AAG003 or DPV so impossible to modify.
Is there any reason ?
:scratch:
Not exactly sure what you are asking here
As you can see, TTS CTD044-03-A0 AFR table shows a 15kPa open loop and a 20kPa closed loop columns where SEPST 044AAG003 only shows a 20kPa closed loop column. These 2 cals are for same bike, same year, same config.
And Power Vision with my stock cal is like SEPST without 15kPa column open loop.
But when I autotune my bike, during decel, map is below 20kPa (around 5 kPa) and no VE are shaped below the 20kPa column.
:scratch:
I cannot comment or offer info on TTS or SEPST calibrations on how/why they do things. If you do not have a 15Kpa column it will reference the 20Kpa column during deceleration, however note Power Vision is not going to populate VE corrections in this area
Mayor, I don't believe you can on the computer. When on the motorcycle you go to autotune and click the "start logging" button, this screen comes up. I think that once you're finished with the tuning run, the screen cannot be recalled. At least I haven't figured out a way to do it.
Ken
Quote from: mayor on September 17, 2012, 07:47:39 AM
Quote from: Tre_11 FLHX on September 08, 2012, 06:49:40 PM
Ken,
I was able to catch a photo of it.(http://i421.photobucket.com/albums/pp299/mzodarg/pv-1.jpg)
how do I get this screen? what's it called in the gauges?
Like Jim, I am very interested in the level 218 maps. I presently am running a 205 cal in the 120r, but would like to try a 218, if it would be possible. Otherwise, I would have to throw my newer ECM on the bike and try out a level 44 for the lambda.
I've got a stock 218 cal but I can't attached it to the post. ".pvt" files are not allowed as attached files
:emsad:
Try Now :wink:
Try now , 00000.pvt attaches OK, although it's a graphic, it's the extension that counts.
[attachment removed after 60 days by system]
:up:
Seems to be ok now.
Attached is my level 218 cal for Touring 2009.
:up:
[attachment removed after 60 days by system]
New Firmware beta 1184 as been released on 09/18/2012.
:wink:
Quote from: hdmanillac on September 21, 2012, 04:54:24 AM
New Firmware beta 1184 as been released on 09/18/2012.
:wink:
New Firmware beta released on 9/28.
Now the FW is official 2.0.0-1194.
:up:
Now it's time to learn about EGR.
:bf:
i have been having problems getting the auto tune to work come up with NBF0 NBR0 VE+ across the green screen any ideas on how to get these rite i have updated to the latest fw
Assuming that you have set the bike up for basic autotune is it more of decell or when does this happen. Post your map file to be reviewed to better help. Dan from DJ or Fuel moto are more than willing to help. Also check to update your file through the PV software.
Quote from: LJfxst on October 29, 2012, 05:59:14 PM
i have been having problems getting the auto tune to work come up with NBF0 NBR0 VE+ across the green screen any ideas on how to get these rite i have updated to the latest fw
NBFO =narrow band front in open loop
Are you in auto tune basic mode?
Quote from: VALLEYRACING on October 29, 2012, 09:23:45 PM
Quote from: LJfxst on October 29, 2012, 05:59:14 PM
i have been having problems getting the auto tune to work come up with NBF0 NBR0 VE+ across the green screen any ideas on how to get these rite i have updated to the latest fw
NBFO =narrow band front in open loop
Are you in auto tune basic mode?
yeah i have followed the instructions on the DJ web site and fuel moto it maybe something in the tune settings i will have a look at the closed loop section of the tune this should change this when it ulters the tune ready for auto tune i thought
Now is it constantly displaying those or just flashing once in a while b/c as I'm tuning it does this also but still collects data at a good rate.
Its normal to flash as the bike goes in and out of Closed loop.... or as its warming up and the o2s are not on line yet ..
"VE:+ Conditions changing too rapidly or moving between VE table cells"
The data is changing too fast to collect good results, try steady speeds, slower accel/decel rates, slower throttle position changes.
FYI, Dynojet just released some very helpful manuals for the following:
WinPV User Guide http://www.powercommander.com/downloads/Support-Released/Power%20Vision/Manuals/98100016.07.pdf (http://www.powercommander.com/downloads/Support-Released/Power%20Vision/Manuals/98100016.07.pdf)
Autotune for Power Vision Guide http://www.powercommander.com/downloads/Support-Released/Power%20Vision/Manuals/PVAutoTune.01.pdf (http://www.powercommander.com/downloads/Support-Released/Power%20Vision/Manuals/PVAutoTune.01.pdf)
Quick Tune User Guide http://www.powercommander.com/downloads/Support-Released/Power%20Vision/Manuals/PVQuickTune.01.pdf (http://www.powercommander.com/downloads/Support-Released/Power%20Vision/Manuals/PVQuickTune.01.pdf)
We expect to have our video that goes thru the Auto Tune finished up next week.
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on October 30, 2012, 07:28:27 AM
Now is it constantly displaying those or just flashing once in a while b/c as I'm tuning it does this also but still collects data at a good rate.
it stays up constant NBF:O NBR:O the VE + goes away rode for ten mins the other day and no hits
Either update the tune file or try a different file
If the bike is warned up. Will it record at idle? No other tables like AE or DE should be involved and you know you holding steady state at idle.
Quote from: LJfxst on October 30, 2012, 04:31:19 PM
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on October 30, 2012, 07:28:27 AM
Now is it constantly displaying those or just flashing once in a while b/c as I'm tuning it does this also but still collects data at a good rate.
it stays up constant NBF:O NBR:O the VE + goes away rode for ten mins the other day and no hits
You do have your stock NBS plugged in to the stock wiring harness? No 0/2 eliminators ?? What year bike?
Quote from: LJfxst on October 30, 2012, 04:31:19 PM
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on October 30, 2012, 07:28:27 AM
Now is it constantly displaying those or just flashing once in a while b/c as I'm tuning it does this also but still collects data at a good rate.
it stays up constant NBF:O NBR:O the VE + goes away rode for ten mins the other day and no hits
Please let me know the year/model of your bike as well as which calibration you are running. Also let me know which FW version you have in your PV.
Or watch your live data and see if the o2 sensors are switching
Quote from: VALLEYRACING on October 30, 2012, 05:00:38 PM
Quote from: LJfxst on October 30, 2012, 04:31:19 PM
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on October 30, 2012, 07:28:27 AM
Now is it constantly displaying those or just flashing once in a while b/c as I'm tuning it does this also but still collects data at a good rate.
it stays up constant NBF:O NBR:O the VE + goes away rode for ten mins the other day and no hits
You do have your stock NBS plugged in to the stock wiring harness? No 0/2 eliminators ?? What year bike?
no eliminators the bike 2012 fxst all wiring is as it was standard i will try it again today and will post my tune file if no luck been for a ride still no change fw im useing is the 2.0.0-1197 i loaded a tune from the dynojet web site and tried to auto tune that and it was doing the same saying narrow band in open loop front and rear
Your FW maybe up to date but the tune file may not be. If you have the egr/cde tables then I think it is up to date otherwise on the PV software click on the Powervision tab button at the top and click on update tune with PV and possibly see if that will work.
Hey fella's
I have just purchased my first PV, I like what I see so far.
Does anyone have some insight to the Charge Dilution Effect option.
What data can we use to calculate the changes required??
Is this function related to cam overlap?? EGR??
I'm in the dark with this one. :doh:
Any help appreciated
Stix.
Same idea as egr I just followed the same rules as egr for tts.
Cheers :up:
I thought so.
TTS has a couple of nice little calculators to assist with the EGR function, not sure I am understanding how to use the function with PV, besides trial and error or guesstimating :scratch:
I really need to get an understanding for this, as creating a tune from scratch with big inch, big overlap cam builds, could really benefit from this table.
I also see mention of MAP tooth settings for intake opening and discharge dilution, I do not see those two options in my tune file, is this a later model thing??
I do wish there was a record feature to show you just the 20-60kpa data to better show you where the CDE woud affect but mabie the later update with the ivo/ivc crank tooth data. Spoke with Jamie about those 2 tune tables today and he said possibly a winter update.
Cheers
Thanks for all the assistance in this thread, this thread convinced me to at least try the product.
Looks like we have to wait some as a work in progress in these areas of CDE and IVO. IF DJ can get that down square, I believe the product will sit at the top of the pile.
Just finished doing some Basic Tune runs on my SGlide with air, VH true duals and 48's. very happy with the ease of tuning and results to date.
My custom built 120ci Dyna needs those CDE and IVO tables to enable a good base to start a tune from scratch.
Ozbob, curious as to why you bought the PV and not TTS? TTS has all of these features already done and in the box... Every 120R running around that I know of was either Dyno tuned or uses TTS or SEPST. Curious is all. I wish to learn how folks think.
You are somewhat correct on whats needed to get a 120 up and running decently. Most important will be the tables all used for idle, is what I have found. Crank steps will need changing, how many steps to run will need changing, warm up steps, warm up enrichment and cranking fuel. Closed throttle spark should be about 21-23* and you MUST make the idle areas match that timing in the main spark tables, too. Once this is sorted, then do the IVO and that tooth thingy, which is the Cam Tool in TTS. THEN it's off to ride and gather data. After a couple data runs, you will then wish to start dialing in the EGRs. Do EGRs early instead of late in the tuning process.
Closed throttle spark will be what controls timing as the bike sits and idles. The idle areas on the main spark tables should match, as those tables take over if the throttle is touched. Matching will make the bike have way less surging, etc when it's trying to warm up, because if the ECM commands more fuel, then its also taking it out of the closed spark and placing it into the main spark tables. This can 'bounce' back and forth until the bike is all warmed up and solidly resting on the closed spark table.
I don't believe the PV will 'sit on the top of the pile' anytime soon. But since it DOES seem to track whatever TTS has already done, that will make it easier for you guys to simply follow TTS advice and move forward. I DO like the latest rev that allows one to globally change a few things around while on the road... quite a bit, actually. If DJ would allow one to plug in an actual monitor, THEN they would have something.
Both my bikes have TTS tunes in them, I bought PV's and AT to try on both of 'em. Why, because I can.
My 4.5x4.125 was dyno tuned with TTS, my tuner prefers the DJ stuff though.
I'm a consumer, I'll try anything.
To show the same type of histogram as the TTS uses that shows where the 60kpa and lower correlates with throttle position to help you with finding out where the EGR/CDE table will affect you need to set the settings of the autotune to only record at a max of 60kpa and then it will show you the data you need to know in the histogram.
Ozbob,
What bike are you tuning now? The streetglide, if MAP base VE's will be different than your dyna. Knowing where EGR is going to effect VE's is easy with MAP base. It's 60-70kpa colum.
Currently playing with the Street Glide and Basic Tune mode.
Still waiting for the AT module to show up.
Ya with map based tunes that is much easier to view. And I am tuning my dyna every day as I ride through the week. I would still like to have a map based tune file option for the cable drive bikes.
Ok, so I got my PV . Did the updates, dug up the two v rod cals online I would like to try and loaded them to the unit. What does the option to check the box for each item do. I'm assuming it's selecting what item to tune and the not the unchecked ones but not sure.
Also of not great importance since I can access these elsewhere, the help file creates an error and I can't view it, plus the readme is totally blank. This is only from the program menu. From the WinPV it can be accessed. :nix:
Never mind, I figured it out. :wink:
Ron
I'm confused, again. :scratch:
There is mention of a LOG VIEWER. It never came on the cd. Do I need to download this program as well. All I got was the WinPV.
Ron
Yes. Go to dynojet.com The files and docs are in the download section.
Quote from: delta on December 29, 2012, 04:23:53 AM
Yes. Go to dynojet.com The files and docs are in the download section.
Ok, will do. Thanks.
Ron
What does that little red button do on the right top side of the unit do?
Ron
Power button?
Quote from: rbabos on December 29, 2012, 11:24:45 AM
What does that little red button do on the right top side of the unit do?
Ron
I asked tech support the same question when I thought my PowerVision was goofing up. They told me is was a "reset" button. I've never seen any documentation that covers the button.
My PV wasn't goofing up after all. It was a problem with my USB port in the computer. Changed ports and it sprang to life.
You asked about log viewer. I also had that same question. The one that comes with PV is kind of lame (either that or I didn't understand it). But you can open the log file with Excel and view any data line you wish. It does take another learning curve . . . how to us Excel. I'm not good at it.
There is also another source for a viewer. The trial version only allows a fraction of a file to display; so the trial version is almost useless. I didn't see enough in the trial to convince me to pay for the program. May some day in the future.
I asked Tech Support to include a good log viewer in future releases (along with several other requests). It really needs one to keep up with the features of other systems.
Ken
is that not it ? (http://www.dynojet.com/Powervision/powervision-software-firmware-downloads.aspx?ProdType=Power%20Vision)
(http://i.imgur.com/fNlKp.png)
Quote from: FSG on December 29, 2012, 02:05:13 PM
is that not it ? (http://www.dynojet.com/Powervision/powervision-software-firmware-downloads.aspx?ProdType=Power%20Vision)
(http://i.imgur.com/fNlKp.png)
That's the one I downloaded. Looks like it should work. :nix:
Ron
Quote from: Ken R on December 29, 2012, 12:05:07 PM
Quote from: rbabos on December 29, 2012, 11:24:45 AM
What does that little red button do on the right top side of the unit do?
Ron
I asked tech support the same question when I thought my PowerVision was goofing up. They told me is was a "reset" button. I've never seen any documentation that covers the button.
My PV wasn't goofing up after all. It was a problem with my USB port in the computer. Changed ports and it sprang to life.
You asked about log viewer. I also had that same question. The one that comes with PV is kind of lame (either that or I didn't understand it). But you can open the log file with Excel and view any data line you wish. It does take another learning curve . . . how to us Excel. I'm not good at it.
There is also another source for a viewer. The trial version only allows a fraction of a file to display; so the trial version is almost useless. I didn't see enough in the trial to convince me to pay for the program. May some day in the future.
I asked Tech Support to include a good log viewer in future releases (along with several other requests). It really needs one to keep up with the features of other systems.
Ken
Good to know the mysterious function of the button. :hyst:
When setting up the cal to tune it asks to set these.
• MAP*
• Engine Temp*
• Warm-up AFR or Lambda*
• TP*
• RPM*
• VE New Front*
• VE New Rear*
• Lambda 1**
• Lambda 2 **
• Accel Enrich*
• Spark Knock F*
• Spark Knock R*
• Set AFR (Ratio or Lambda
I've not found a specific Map, engine temp, tp and rpm to actually set. What am I missing here?
I see map load normalization and idle rpms to set.
Ron
Dynojet has a library of maps for different years & configurations here: http://www.dynojet.com/Powervision/PowerVisionMapsTunesDownloads.aspx (http://www.dynojet.com/Powervision/PowerVisionMapsTunesDownloads.aspx)
Download a map(s) to your computer. Open WinPV and open the file. At this point on the upper menu click PowerVision then Update Tune Using PV. When this is done save the file. Send this file to a vacant slot on the PV. Then you are ready for autotuning.
Though I have never loaded a preconfigured tune that was already on the PV, I think it has to hooked up to your ECM with the bike turned on to actually view the library. I would think that it is similar to what is on the dynojet site.
Hopefully this is enough to get you started.
I think the library is the same as whats online if you have the most up to date software/firmware. Give Jamie from fuelmoto a call he is the resident expert.
Quote from: rbabos on December 29, 2012, 03:18:54 PM
Quote from: Ken R on December 29, 2012, 12:05:07 PM
Quote from: rbabos on December 29, 2012, 11:24:45 AM
What does that little red button do on the right top side of the unit do?
Ron
I asked tech support the same question when I thought my PowerVision was goofing up. They told me is was a "reset" button. I've never seen any documentation that covers the button.
My PV wasn't goofing up after all. It was a problem with my USB port in the computer. Changed ports and it sprang to life.
You asked about log viewer. I also had that same question. The one that comes with PV is kind of lame (either that or I didn't understand it). But you can open the log file with Excel and view any data line you wish. It does take another learning curve . . . how to us Excel. I'm not good at it.
There is also another source for a viewer. The trial version only allows a fraction of a file to display; so the trial version is almost useless. I didn't see enough in the trial to convince me to pay for the program. May some day in the future.
I asked Tech Support to include a good log viewer in future releases (along with several other requests). It really needs one to keep up with the features of other systems.
Ken
Good to know the mysterious function of the button. :hyst:
When setting up the cal to tune it asks to set these.
• MAP*
• Engine Temp*
• Warm-up AFR or Lambda*
• TP*
• RPM*
• VE New Front*
• VE New Rear*
• Lambda 1**
• Lambda 2 **
• Accel Enrich*
• Spark Knock F*
• Spark Knock R*
• Set AFR (Ratio or Lambda
I've not found a specific Map, engine temp, tp and rpm to actually set. What am I missing here?
I see map load normalization and idle rpms to set.
Ron
If you do the Auto Tune straight from the device (no pc involved) the unit sets all of this for you and it makes the process much easier.
I will copy/paste this from the Fuel Moto Website:
As an alternative to logging the channels noted above you can also use the following procedure on your Power Vision unit. Go to Settings/Enter Code and enter the PIN number 319245 which will bring up a mini tuning screen which will not only allow you to monitor your hits in real time with a tracer cell, it also automatically logs the correct channels required for your calibration. You can start and stop logs right from this screen as well.This is what I have done and it has made life much easier. I do have a PC to use if need be, but why involve the PC if there is a feature of the software/device that allows you to do the auto tune without it.
This is another link I have found helpful after entering the above code into the proper spot:
http://blogs.dynojet.com/index.php/2012/09/automated-tuning-is-now-a-reality/ (http://blogs.dynojet.com/index.php/2012/09/automated-tuning-is-now-a-reality/)
This whole process, at least "for me", has been unbelievably easy. The hardest part about the whole process is finding a road that will allow you to spend enough time in each gear/RPM range as needed for the unit to recognize changes to be made if any.
Hope this helps some
FM
Quote from: delta on December 29, 2012, 03:46:25 PM
Dynojet has a library of maps for different years & configurations here: http://www.dynojet.com/Powervision/PowerVisionMapsTunesDownloads.aspx (http://www.dynojet.com/Powervision/PowerVisionMapsTunesDownloads.aspx)
Download a map(s) to your computer. Open WinPV and open the file. At this point on the upper menu click PowerVision then Update Tune Using PV. When this is done save the file. Send this file to a vacant slot on the PV. Then you are ready for autotuning.
Though I have never loaded a preconfigured tune that was already on the PV, I think it has to hooked up to your ECM with the bike turned on to actually view the library. I would think that it is similar to what is on the dynojet site.
Hopefully this is enough to get you started.
Got enough info now to bs my way through. Just like to get a feel for most of it before acually hooking up. Some I guess won't happen until the unit is on the bike, then more will make sense.
Ron
Quote from: Fire-Medic on December 29, 2012, 04:23:20 PM
Quote from: rbabos on December 29, 2012, 03:18:54 PM
Quote from: Ken R on December 29, 2012, 12:05:07 PM
Quote from: rbabos on December 29, 2012, 11:24:45 AM
What does that little red button do on the right top side of the unit do?
Ron
I asked tech support the same question when I thought my PowerVision was goofing up. They told me is was a "reset" button. I've never seen any documentation that covers the button.
My PV wasn't goofing up after all. It was a problem with my USB port in the computer. Changed ports and it sprang to life.
You asked about log viewer. I also had that same question. The one that comes with PV is kind of lame (either that or I didn't understand it). But you can open the log file with Excel and view any data line you wish. It does take another learning curve . . . how to us Excel. I'm not good at it.
There is also another source for a viewer. The trial version only allows a fraction of a file to display; so the trial version is almost useless. I didn't see enough in the trial to convince me to pay for the program. May some day in the future.
I asked Tech Support to include a good log viewer in future releases (along with several other requests). It really needs one to keep up with the features of other systems.
Ken
Good to know the mysterious function of the button. :hyst:
When setting up the cal to tune it asks to set these.
• MAP*
• Engine Temp*
• Warm-up AFR or Lambda*
• TP*
• RPM*
• VE New Front*
• VE New Rear*
• Lambda 1**
• Lambda 2 **
• Accel Enrich*
• Spark Knock F*
• Spark Knock R*
• Set AFR (Ratio or Lambda
I've not found a specific Map, engine temp, tp and rpm to actually set. What am I missing here?
I see map load normalization and idle rpms to set.
Ron
If you do the Auto Tune straight from the device (no pc involved) the unit sets all of this for you and it makes the process much easier.
I will copy/paste this from the Fuel Moto Website:
As an alternative to logging the channels noted above you can also use the following procedure on your Power Vision unit. Go to Settings/Enter Code and enter the PIN number 319245 which will bring up a mini tuning screen which will not only allow you to monitor your hits in real time with a tracer cell, it also automatically logs the correct channels required for your calibration. You can start and stop logs right from this screen as well.
This is what I have done and it has made life much easier. I do have a PC to use if need be, but why involve the PC if there is a feature of the software/device that allows you to do the auto tune without it.
This is another link I have found helpful after entering the above code into the proper spot:
http://blogs.dynojet.com/index.php/2012/09/automated-tuning-is-now-a-reality/ (http://blogs.dynojet.com/index.php/2012/09/automated-tuning-is-now-a-reality/)
This whole process, at least "for me", has been unbelievably easy. The hardest part about the whole process is finding a road that will allow you to spend enough time in each gear/RPM range as needed for the unit to recognize changes to be made if any.
Hope this helps some
FM
I saw that, and will check it out. Did you mean to say (will not allow you to monitor your hits)?
Ron
Sorry Ron, the "not" is a typo and should be "now", I will send FM an email and let them know.
When you do your tuning runs, a "highlighted" box/cell appears wherever the PV is logging data at that instant. This has greatly helped me in my data logging thus far, as there is no guessing if you are riding around in the area/areas you need to still data log. It's all real time, and everything can be done from the unit itself.
Quote from: rbabos on December 29, 2012, 11:24:45 AM
What does that little red button do on the right top side of the unit do?
Ron
The red button puts the unit in bootloader/recovery mode. This is generally not used.
Quote from: rbabos on December 28, 2012, 07:33:01 PM
I'm confused, again. :scratch:
There is mention of a LOG VIEWER. It never came on the cd. Do I need to download this program as well. All I got was the WinPV.
Ron
PV Log Tuner software is available from http://www.dynojet.com/PowerVision/powervision-software-firmware-downloads.aspx?ProdType=Power%20Vision, (http://www.dynojet.com/PowerVision/powervision-software-firmware-downloads.aspx?ProdType=Power%20Vision,) however I highly recommend using the newer Auto Tune/log tuning features right on the PV display. You can view live data and hits right on the PV screen including +/- % correction, corrected VE, and you also have the ability to apply corrections directly to your calibration. Both Dynojet and Fuel Moto are working on videos that go over this process. There is documentation that goes thru the automated tuning process at http://www.powercommander.com/downloads/Support-Released/Power%20Vision/Manuals/PVAutoTune.01.pdf (http://www.powercommander.com/downloads/Support-Released/Power%20Vision/Manuals/PVAutoTune.01.pdf)
Quote from: Jamie Long on January 02, 2013, 08:46:20 AM
Quote from: rbabos on December 28, 2012, 07:33:01 PM
I'm confused, again. :scratch:
There is mention of a LOG VIEWER. It never came on the cd. Do I need to download this program as well. All I got was the WinPV.
Ron
PV Log Tuner software is available from http://www.dynojet.com/PowerVision/powervision-software-firmware-downloads.aspx?ProdType=Power%20Vision, (http://www.dynojet.com/PowerVision/powervision-software-firmware-downloads.aspx?ProdType=Power%20Vision,) however I highly recommend using the newer Auto Tune/log tuning features right on the PV display. You can view live data and hits right on the PV screen including +/- % correction, corrected VE, and you also have the ability to apply corrections directly to your calibration. Both Dynojet and Fuel Moto are working on videos that go over this process. There is documentation that goes thru the automated tuning process at http://www.powercommander.com/downloads/Support-Released/Power%20Vision/Manuals/PVAutoTune.01.pdf (http://www.powercommander.com/downloads/Support-Released/Power%20Vision/Manuals/PVAutoTune.01.pdf)
Thanks Jammie. Found it on the web site prior to your post.
Ron
Quote from: Jamie Long on January 02, 2013, 08:39:15 AM
Quote from: rbabos on December 29, 2012, 11:24:45 AM
What does that little red button do on the right top side of the unit do?
Ron
The red button puts the unit in bootloader/recovery mode. This is generally not used.
So, how and when does it come into play. In all honesty, I did poke at it a couple of times to see what it did when I was hooked up to the pc. Nothing happened that I could see.
Ron
Now i cant remember for sure but i remember when i installed my first one when they came out and then shortly there after they had a critical update and i used it when i did that update.
Just a suggestion of improvement :
Would it be possible to access "accel enrichment multiplier" and "decel enleanment multiplier" from quick tune ?
Just like "idle rpm ader".
:idea:
Quote from: hdmanillac on January 05, 2013, 11:12:05 PM
Just a suggestion of improvement :
Would it be possible to access "accel enrichment multiplier" and "decel enleanment multiplier" from quick tune ?
Just like "idle rpm ader".
:idea:
These are all accessable once the cal is imported from the unit to WinPV.
Ron
I think he was talking about just from the unit.
I am a new user of the PV. Just purchased it from FM. I have used the setup menu and made new files for tunes, stock, log but I am having trouble saving a tune to the tune file. When I click on save it comes up as Power Vision not Tunes. Any suggestions?
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on January 06, 2013, 08:30:12 AM
I think he was talking about just from the unit.
You're right ! Quick Tune is made to set up the map directely from the unit.
:up:
Quote from: Kblhd on January 06, 2013, 09:21:31 AM
I am a new user of the PV. Just purchased it from FM. I have used the setup menu and made new files for tunes, stock, log but I am having trouble saving a tune to the tune file. When I click on save it comes up as Power Vision not Tunes. Any suggestions?
You can name it whatever you want and save it in the folder of your choice. You have to make sure the file you want to save is the one that is active, then click file, save as, and when the window pops up, you pick what file to save it to and you can name it whatever you would like.
Reading on how to set up autotune and ran accross something . It says if you have a v rod that the temp settings need to be changed. Any idea on what the numer in C should be to put in there? Secondly, ok, so I do it and run an autotune session, export the file, reload it and choose another autotune session on this file, do I need to set the temp again or does it remember?
Ron
It remembers unless you use a different map
And i think the vrod would ne ok with the temps set at 75 to 115 or so
Quote from: rbabos on January 07, 2013, 04:40:03 PM
Reading on how to set up autotune and ran accross something . It says if you have a v rod that the temp settings need to be changed. Any idea on what the numer in C should be to put in there? Secondly, ok, so I do it and run an autotune session, export the file, reload it and choose another autotune session on this file, do I need to set the temp again or does it remember?
Ron
Vrods have different temps.
"4.6.
Collecting VTune Data
Once the vehicle is warmed up and ready, all the indicators will turn green and you are ready to ride and collect your VTune data. The "green" temperature will vary based on the model that is selected:
•
Big Twin = 75 to 155 °C (167 to 311 °F)
•
VRSC = 85 to 120 °C (185 to 248 °F)
•
Sportster = 145 to 230 °C (293 to 446 °F)"
Read over your TTS manual and set the temps to what it suggests. Like we have talked about before. More cells, with less room.
Quote from: hrdtail78 on January 07, 2013, 09:54:36 PM
Quote from: rbabos on January 07, 2013, 04:40:03 PM
Reading on how to set up autotune and ran accross something . It says if you have a v rod that the temp settings need to be changed. Any idea on what the numer in C should be to put in there? Secondly, ok, so I do it and run an autotune session, export the file, reload it and choose another autotune session on this file, do I need to set the temp again or does it remember?
Ron
Vrods have different temps.
"4.6.
Collecting VTune Data
Once the vehicle is warmed up and ready, all the indicators will turn green and you are ready to ride and collect your VTune data. The "green" temperature will vary based on the model that is selected:
•
Big Twin = 75 to 155 °C (167 to 311 °F)
•
VRSC = 85 to 120 °C (185 to 248 °F)
•
Sportster = 145 to 230 °C (293 to 446 °F)"
Read over your TTS manual and set the temps to what it suggests. Like we have talked about before. More cells, with less room.
Thanks for the temps .
Ron
Fire - medic
Thanks started new files under My documents and it works thanks
Quote from: Kblhd on January 08, 2013, 07:39:04 PM
Fire - medic
Thanks started new files under My documents and it works thanks
No sweat it was still fresh in my mind because I had just done it, lol.
Hi,
Sorry if this is a stupid question but this screen is not shown in the Adobe document PVAutotune.01.pdf.
Ok, so Ive run an Auto tune basic session, exported the tune and now am going through the screens to flash this tune to the ECU, then the following question is asked before flashing the tune can proceed,
" Do you want to reset learned FUEL TRIM values ? "
" This is necessary ONLY if youve changed any Air-Fuel related parameters"
YES NO
So, do I press YES or NO ?
Thanks,
Jeff
Did you change any of the tables in the afr table. If not then no.
Hi Joe,
No changes to the AFR, Ive just exported the learned map to a slot then wanted to flash this map to the ECU.
Thanks for your help.
Jeff
The way I understood it was that if you have done an autotuning run then your VE tables have changed. This is a parameter that affects fuel. I reset the fuel trims when asked.
Quote from: delta on January 14, 2013, 03:47:47 PM
The way I understood it was that if you have done an autotuning run then your VE tables have changed. This is a parameter that affects fuel. I reset the fuel trims when asked.
Me, too. It'll learn them again. Since the VE's have changed, it NEEDS to relearn. At least that's how I understand it.
If I was changing something like idle speed, throttle by wire settings, or any other parameter in the ECM with the flash, I'd select "No".
Ken
Ohh ya ur right my bad. Its not cool not getting to tune bikes anymore you start to forget about stuff.
Anytime you have made a change to the VE table or or are changing calibrations you need to reset the learned fuel trims as long term fuel trims (more specifically AFF/AFV) are stored in memory, not the calibration itself.
Quote from: Jamie Long on January 15, 2013, 08:53:21 AM
Anytime you have made a change to the VE table or or are changing calibrations you need to reset the learned fuel trims as long term fuel trims (more specifically AFF/AFV) are stored in memory, not the calibration itself.
I'm somewhat confused on that part. The way I read it, if you select autotune the fuel trims are reset automatically, are they not?
If not, should the fuel trims be reset on each autotune session since the ve's have changed prior or reset only if the ve changes were done manually? Why the warning? Shouldn't the afv be reset anyway prior to the next autotune session?
Ron
Hi,
Thankyou for the replies, but now Im confused.
The way I have been doing it is, Start Autotune, choose the file and autotune prepares it, edit the temp and rpm as for a Vrod.
datalog, export the saved values and place in a tune slot. If I want to run Autotune more on that tune just perform the same loop again, that means that when I select the same tune again for Autotune it starts with the trims reset to zero. I can do this again and again until changes in the datalogged trims are up to a max of say 2% changes, and this should give me a pretty descent tune.
I get the message I asked the question about when I want to flash the ecu with the selected tune.
I have tried to attach a photo of the message.
Maybe not such a stupid question after all.
Jeff
[attachment removed after 60 days by system]
During the tuning process anytime you are prompted to reset learned Fuel Trims you will want to do so. About the only exceptions would be an insignificant edit like idle speed, rev limit, etc..
We have to understand what we are doing when we are tuning the VE's. We are using the learned fuel trims to adjust our VE's. So when we load the new VE's made from the AFV's. We are "centering" or resetting the AFV's. You wouldn't want to keep the trims and load new VE's.
Quote from: hrdtail78 on January 16, 2013, 07:39:28 AM
We have to understand what we are doing when we are tuning the VE's. We are using the learned fuel trims to adjust our VE's. So when we load the new VE's made from the AFV's. We are "centering" or resetting the AFV's. You wouldn't want to keep the trims and load new VE's.
Page 9 in using autotune. It automatically resets fuel trims when auto tune is selected when using Basic autotune. My confusion is if it does this automatically and if settings are changed and I agree with you the afv should be cleared on each tune run, so why the manual approach to reset learned if it's already been done. Seems to be a carry over from an earlier software version. Not a big deal, just seems redundant in this aspect.
AutoTune Basic—automatically applies a .pvv to the tune that does the following:
• Sets the base fuel table to 14.6 for AFR based calibrations and .982 for lambda based
calibrations.
• Disables AE/DE/EITMS/PE/Adaptive Control.
• Retards 4 degrees of timing.
• Bias the close loop range to .700mv on AFR based calibrations.
General
• Sets calib to PVAT (Session Number).
• Clears adaptive fuel tables after flashing.
Ron
Not familar enough with vision to say, but what I understand. Auto-tune basic shuts off some tables I would not want to shut off. Does it reset them in advance mode. I know SESPT asks the same thing.
Are you are talking about the ae/de tables being shut off and the same issue that tts has with the same thing? i dont think that it is an issue with PV. Now does it really shut off ae/de or just not record when those events happen? I would need to monitor to see for sure but my bike is in a few pieces while im converting to FBW.
Quote from: rbabos on January 16, 2013, 09:27:14 AM
Quote from: hrdtail78 on January 16, 2013, 07:39:28 AM
We have to understand what we are doing when we are tuning the VE's. We are using the learned fuel trims to adjust our VE's. So when we load the new VE's made from the AFV's. We are "centering" or resetting the AFV's. You wouldn't want to keep the trims and load new VE's.
Page 9 in using autotune. It automatically resets fuel trims when auto tune is selected when using Basic autotune. My confusion is if it does this automatically and if settings are changed and I agree with you the afv should be cleared on each tune run, so why the manual approach to reset learned if it's already been done. Seems to be a carry over from an earlier software version. Not a big deal, just seems redundant in this aspect.
AutoTune Basic—automatically applies a .pvv to the tune that does the following:
• Sets the base fuel table to 14.6 for AFR based calibrations and .982 for lambda based
calibrations.
• Disables AE/DE/EITMS/PE/Adaptive Control.
• Retards 4 degrees of timing.
• Bias the close loop range to .700mv on AFR based calibrations.
General
• Sets calib to PVAT (Session Number).
• Clears adaptive fuel tables after flashing.
Ron
When going into the tune session when Auto Tune is enabled the fuel trims are automatically reset, however after you export your AT learned data you this creates a new calibration in the tune manager. When you reflash this new calibration you will reset learned fuel trims when prompted. In good practice
"During the tuning process anytime you are prompted to reset learned Fuel Trims you will want to do so"
Quote from: hrdtail78 on January 16, 2013, 10:29:58 AM
Not familar enough with vision to say, but what I understand. Auto-tune basic shuts off some tables I would not want to shut off. Does it reset them in advance mode. I know SESPT asks the same thing.
Power Vision does not exactly shut off the tables when it is put in Auto Tune Basic mode. While it states in the manual AE/DE/EITMS/PE/Adaptive Control are "disabled", they are actually
changed specifically and there are a couple things toggled off, with the end goal to allow maximum closed loop learning while in Auto Tune mode.
For those that are non believers, you can leave everything setup in your calibration to your liking such as AE/DE/EITMS/PE, select Narrowband Logging, do a tuning session, and put everything in PV Log Tuner which will populate a corrected tune as well.
Quote from: Jamie Long on January 16, 2013, 11:52:15 AM
Quote from: rbabos on January 16, 2013, 09:27:14 AM
Quote from: hrdtail78 on January 16, 2013, 07:39:28 AM
We have to understand what we are doing when we are tuning the VE's. We are using the learned fuel trims to adjust our VE's. So when we load the new VE's made from the AFV's. We are "centering" or resetting the AFV's. You wouldn't want to keep the trims and load new VE's.
Page 9 in using autotune. It automatically resets fuel trims when auto tune is selected when using Basic autotune. My confusion is if it does this automatically and if settings are changed and I agree with you the afv should be cleared on each tune run, so why the manual approach to reset learned if it's already been done. Seems to be a carry over from an earlier software version. Not a big deal, just seems redundant in this aspect.
AutoTune Basic—automatically applies a .pvv to the tune that does the following:
• Sets the base fuel table to 14.6 for AFR based calibrations and .982 for lambda based
calibrations.
• Disables AE/DE/EITMS/PE/Adaptive Control.
• Retards 4 degrees of timing.
• Bias the close loop range to .700mv on AFR based calibrations.
General
• Sets calib to PVAT (Session Number).
• Clears adaptive fuel tables after flashing.
Ron
When going into the tune session when Auto Tune is enabled the fuel trims are automatically reset, however after you export your AT learned data you this creates a new calibration in the tune manager. When you reflash this new calibration you will reset learned fuel trims when prompted. In good practice "During the tuning process anytime you are prompted to reset learned Fuel Trims you will want to do so"
Understood. Will do it each and every time as common practice when I get rollin with it. Thanks.
Ron
Quote from: wurk_truk on January 16, 2013, 12:58:52 PM
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on January 16, 2013, 11:50:57 AM
Are you are talking about the ae/de tables being shut off and the same issue that tts has with the same thing? i dont think that it is an issue with PV. Now does it really shut off ae/de or just not record when those events happen? I would need to monitor to see for sure but my bike is in a few pieces while im converting to FBW.
keep your head in the sand. how can you breathe like that? as reported... its a DELPHI issue
It was claimed to be a Delphi issue John. I've yet to see what it is exactly in writing. :potstir:
Ron
Quote from: wurk_truk on January 16, 2013, 12:58:52 PM
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on January 16, 2013, 11:50:57 AM
Are you are talking about the ae/de tables being shut off and the same issue that tts has with the same thing? i dont think that it is an issue with PV. Now does it really shut off ae/de or just not record when those events happen? I would need to monitor to see for sure but my bike is in a few pieces while im converting to FBW.
keep your head in the sand. how can you breathe like that? as reported... its a DELPHI issue
I was saying that i dont think that the PV shuts off the ae/de tables for sure. So then my head would not be in the ''SAND'' but saying that using the basic tune with PV would not be like shuting off the ae/de tables with tts. My guess is that the ae/de tables are returned "if changed" to a certain value and that pe and the rest are shut off.
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on January 16, 2013, 11:50:57 AM
Are you are talking about the ae/de tables being shut off and the same issue that tts has with the same thing? i dont think that it is an issue with PV. Now does it really shut off ae/de or just not record when those events happen? I would need to monitor to see for sure but my bike is in a few pieces while im converting to FBW.
I'm not just talking those tables or the issue that is in Delphi's ECM. With a dyno you have control over things someone won't have on the street. That is why I like systems that allow me to set things where I like them. The vision does allow me to do this. So why would I tune in basic? I would use the thing in advance mode anyway. Example: I have a cam/ pipe combo that doesn't like to run CL at idle. I would want to set the cal up so I could use something else besides the stock sensors so I could map the VE in the low rpm and idle area. Like stated. I like to have control over my cal. Seems tuning devices are trying to do more things automatically for me. Might be a pro for the DIYer, but I see it as something in the con column.
Quote from: hrdtail78 on January 16, 2013, 02:42:29 PM
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on January 16, 2013, 11:50:57 AM
Are you are talking about the ae/de tables being shut off and the same issue that tts has with the same thing? i dont think that it is an issue with PV. Now does it really shut off ae/de or just not record when those events happen? I would need to monitor to see for sure but my bike is in a few pieces while im converting to FBW.
I'm not just talking those tables or the issue that is in Delphi's ECM. With a dyno you have control over things someone won't have on the street. That is why I like systems that allow me to set things where I like them. The vision does allow me to do this. So why would I tune in basic? I would use the thing in advance mode anyway. Example: I have a cam/ pipe combo that doesn't like to run CL at idle. I would want to set the cal up so I could use something else besides the stock sensors so I could map the VE in the low rpm and idle area. Like stated. I like to have control over my cal. Seems tuning devices are trying to do more things automatically for me. Might be a pro for the DIYer, but I see it as something in the con column.
I don't feel that way at all. Having used tts on two miserable builds I can find my way around well enough to get the job done eventually. The PV should appeal to plenty of people wanting a decent tune with all the exta learning curve. The less they need to learn or do the better a system appeals to them. Let's face it, just about anything will beat a stock tune, right? PV seems as it will be a bit easier to use and no laptop is really required for the average user. For the rest of us the features to manually dive in to all settings is there should the need arise. I will try the Basic for now and see how it goes since it's nothing more than stock with slip ons installed. Failing that the option broadbands is available as well, just not for me. :banghead: I've learned my lesson with vtuning. V rod stock sensor location will be problematic in the low end regardless of PV, TTS or TS, as we've briefly discussed before. Again, the option is there in PV to run open loop in the areas that AFV will trash or the inability of good sensor sampling in the low end areas in the first place. A reasonable tune can be fudged here just be listening and feeling the engine behaviour . Been there , done that twice and since it's generally in light load lower rpms who cares if it's not 100% textbook. As long as it's smooth and responsive I'm good with it.
Nothing will replace a dedicated tuner with a dyno for best results, but at the same time the PV used with the dyno should give a first class tune as well as any of them. As you say, not basic with built engines but using all available features to get the job done.
Ron
Quote from: rbabos on January 16, 2013, 03:22:09 PM
....Again, the option is there in PV to run open loop in the areas that AFV will trash or the inability of good sensor sampling in the low end areas in the first place.
Ron
How quickly does the AFV trash those areas? I've been thinking about just turning the AFV switch off. At least that way, each time I shut the bike off, the tune would reset itself back to what was loaded (I think). I will be experimenting with this in the spring.
IME. The AFV help more than hurt if sampling is correct in the first place. If AFV "trash a tune" you have collected bad info. Crap in, crap out. So you map the VE's, and they change to cause havoc? Sampling, sampling, sampling. We can talk about filters, but can only collect what the Delphi ECM allows us to. Doesn't hold so much on the
tuning device.
On My PV I have one set of screens set to read 02 Integrator Values as Im riding ...after a tune...if the O2 Integrator values are between 95 & 105%and steady through a run .....the AFV will not be doing anything in any case.... a sharp spike tells you where the VEs are not correct ....
Quote from: HV on January 17, 2013, 08:53:15 AM
On My PV I have one set of screens set to read 02 Integrator Values as Im riding ...after a tune...if the O2 Integrator values are between 95 & 105%and steady through a run .....the AFV will not be doing anything in any case.... a sharp spike tells you where the VEs are not correct ....
Ok, so what's your solution short of O2 relocation? Blend the ve area to surrounding and 14.5 this spot? Blending only and leaving it in closed , it will revert in time from my experiences.
Ron
Yes if its not sampling rite its gonna move back...V rods are a Diff animal ...you cant even smart tune one with a SESPT ... :banghead:
we had zero issues tuning the vrod with tts using the stock sensors , the motor runs as it should
Quote from: brunothedog on January 17, 2013, 01:50:13 PM
we had zero issues tuning the vrod with tts using the stock sensors , the motor runs as it should
2-3k light load areas worked out ok. I notice my stock cal has issues in that area as do most stock v rod from what I hear. Not real bad but needs work.
Ron
Got the PV mounted in behind the Windvest and shortened the cable for a nice clean install. Loaded what's called an improved stock v rod cal. I must say, with just this load it idles smoother and the 2-3k hunting is practically none existant even with 0 load on it. Have to wait for spring to do the autotune runs but it's a hell of improvement just with the loaded cal.
While it was running I played with some of the features it had. This raises the question, can this unit remain on the bike and run indefinately without ill effect to the unit? Seems a shame to tune and let it collect dust from there on.
Ron
[attachment removed after 60 days by system]
Mine stays on and is my speedo, temp. gauge among all the other things it can show me but yes it is weather resistant. I made a plate to mount it to my handlebar riser bolts.
It won't hurt anything to leave it on the bike. Just a monitor. I have mine mounted and it's cool to see all the data.
Mine stays on the Bars all the time...Watching the cells fill as you ride is very interesting.... I have screens for ET.... Speed in MPH and 02 Integrator's ETC your imagination is the limit for screen set ups :up:
(http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u408/HVHTT/IMAG0125.jpg)
Cool on the leaving it on full time.
Worst case senerio. Should the unit somehow fry itself as electronics have been known to do, is my stock tune recoverable or should I have a copy saved on my desktop or flashed somewhere else? Slim to nil on the fry, I know but chit does happen.
Ron
Yeah, Ron. Mine has found a permanent spot on the Ultra Limited handlebar. Love it. Have several gauge displays programmed it, both analog and digital-numeric. My instantaneous and trip fuel efficiency, ET, MAP, and a couple of others are in the six-field display. It's the one I use the most.
I like the analog displays, but they're too jumpy and need some software dampening.
I do have all of my tunes in a couple of computers and even a flash memory stick just in case; from the factory stock, through all of my renditions, to the current tune.
Ken
I would make copies on different medias. The tune could be accidentally deleted from one of the slots.
Hi,
This is by far the best answers for PV on the net.
I first installed a PCV on the bike with Autotune fitted, I had a few problems and it was found the PCV was faulty. It was still under warranty and Dynojet UK allowed me to pay a little extra and swapped it for a PV. I was told that with the addition of a longer can cable and a Y connector cable for the diag port I could use the Autotune on the PV.
So if I install the Autotune, along with the O2 eliminator plugs, I would then run Autotune Pro and that would give me an open loop map ?
Then export the trims and flash with the new map. Its not aleways convenient to run with the display connected, so I would be running the bike in open loop, the same as a PCV would ?
Is this way better than leaving the factory sensors connected, do a basic tune, save and flash to the ECU, then your running as closed/open loop same as from the factory ?
Have I got this right or can someone explain it for me ?
Surely I dont have to fit extra bungs for the widebands and run them alongside the factory sensors to get Autotune Pro ?
I only have slip ons, K & N and the PV, but its just so lean from the factory.
Thanks and sorry for the long post.
Jeff
Quote from: upnorthbiker on January 23, 2013, 02:34:28 PM
Hi,
This is by far the best answers for PV on the net.
I first installed a PCV on the bike with Autotune fitted, I had a few problems and it was found the PCV was faulty. It was still under warranty and Dynojet UK allowed me to pay a little extra and swapped it for a PV. I was told that with the addition of a longer can cable and a Y connector cable for the diag port I could use the Autotune on the PV.
So if I install the Autotune, along with the O2 eliminator plugs, I would then run Autotune Pro and that would give me an open loop map ?
Then export the trims and flash with the new map. Its not aleways convenient to run with the display connected, so I would be running the bike in open loop, the same as a PCV would ?
Is this way better than leaving the factory sensors connected, do a basic tune, save and flash to the ECU, then your running as closed/open loop same as from the factory ?
Have I got this right or can someone explain it for me ?
Surely I dont have to fit extra bungs for the widebands and run them alongside the factory sensors to get Autotune Pro ?
I only have slip ons, K & N and the PV, but its just so lean from the factory.
Thanks and sorry for the long post.
Jeff
When you are using the Wideband AT module and put the PV in Auto Tune mode the calibration is automatically setup in open loop, there is no need to use O2 eliminators as PV has the ability to turn off closed loop and adaptive control. When you are finished with your tune sessions, have applied your corrections and have the tune where you want it you can remove the PV/AT, reinstall the factory O2 sensors, and re-enable closed loop. The other options are to leave everything installed and use the AT module and PV to monitor live data, or if you have and exhaust with the ability to run both the factory and AT Wideband sensors run them both which allows you to run closed loop and monitor/log AF data in real time along with everything on the ECM's data bus. Having this ability is a huge eye opener for many users as it allows you to see exactly how the ECM does business as usual, including how the closed loop integrator and adaptive control works.
Thanks Jamie, I have a lot of playing and learning to get on with come the spring, summer.
Jeff
Any word on the next lot of updates. Been quiet for a while now.
charge dilution, Map tooth IVO etc???????
I was told at the show somewhere around may and for tuners some good news of a collaboration between the PV and the dyno.
And charge dilution is already available you just need to update ur map through the PV.
Quote from: Ozbob on February 08, 2013, 06:44:36 AM
Any word on the next lot of updates. Been quiet for a while now.
charge dilution, Map tooth IVO etc???????
Front/Rear Charge Dilution, multiple spark temp correction tables, more enhanced closed loop control, and other various tables were added the later part of last year. To update your tune with the latest exposed tables first update your PV firmware thru the PV Update Client, plug into WinPV and go to PowerVision>Update Tune from PV and hit OK. As far as new updates there is some very cool stuff being tested at the moment, we expect a significant update in the next several months.
Nice getting to meet you at the show jamie. I always love updates.
Yep, cheers fellas I was looking at the latest updates on my PC when I posted.
Guess my thing with charge dilution was the need for a clearer explanation on how to use effectively.
Cheers Jamie for the update.
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on February 08, 2013, 08:08:00 AM
Nice getting to meet you at the show jamie. I always love updates.
Great meeting you as well, always appreciate someone willing to think outside the box. A TBW conversion on a Dyna?.......awesome.
Thank you Jamie I just wanted map based tuning for my Dyna and no tuning device can provide that for me. So I made it work. Only problem is that I tuned the bike with the cable drive ecm so now I have to pay a chunk of change to tune the fbw ecm.
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on February 08, 2013, 04:55:25 PM
Thank you Jamie I just wanted map based tuning for my Dyna and no tuning device can provide that for me. So I made it work. Only problem is that I tuned the bike with the cable drive ecm so now I have to pay a chunk of change to tune the fbw ecm.
what cal level you running now 205 ,009, 358 ?
you work at a dealership and you have to pay for dyno time for this project????? shame on her!
I am more of a cable throttle guy. I havent come to embrace the FBW for my own ride. but the lambda map base is sweet in some respects.
nice project :up:
No I tuned my cable drive ecm with my PV when I got it but now that I have my FBW ecm I have to pay for the unlock license to open up my PV and retune the new ecm which by the way is a borrowed ecm so if anyone knows of a FBW ecm for sale for a smoking deal. I have found $125 so far.
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on February 09, 2013, 08:44:18 AM
No I tuned my cable drive ecm with my PV when I got it but now that I have my FBW ecm I have to pay for the unlock license to open up my PV and retune the new ecm which by the way is a borrowed ecm so if anyone knows of a FBW ecm for sale for a smoking deal. I have found $125 so far.
I see . little $$$ at a time.
you doing a 2010 up 009 cal?
Ya I got a 009 cal in it now. The borrowed ecm has a supertuner attached to it so I can do something but I do miss tuning with my PV
$125 IS a smoking deal on a FBW ECM.
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on February 09, 2013, 10:11:05 AM
Ya I got a 009 cal in it now. The borrowed ecm has a supertuner attached to it so I can do something but I do miss tuning with my PV
What year ECM ?
if it is a 09 ecm?
sepst is the only tuner that allows you to load and run a 009 cal.
You need a 10 ECM to run lambda with Pv or tts. Unless DJ has changed recently.
Combining some thoughts here. A 09 ECM would be TITS for you. Run a 205 cal, place the O2s near the heads, and be done with it. I'm running a 09 ECM, using 205 cals, and have the O2s right next to the ports.
Quote from: strokerjlk on February 09, 2013, 06:11:51 PM
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on February 09, 2013, 10:11:05 AM
Ya I got a 009 cal in it now. The borrowed ecm has a supertuner attached to it so I can do something but I do miss tuning with my PV
What year ECM ?
if it is a 09 ecm?
sepst is the only tuner that allows you to load and run a 009 cal.
You need a 10 ECM to run lambda with Pv or tts. Unless DJ has changed recently.
I have an ecm from a 2011 right now but the ecms are the same that not the issue its what O2 sensors you use pretty much. TTS, DJPV and SEST all have a 009, 044, and 205 files(PV 205 like files are 202?). and there are lambda maps for PV for 08-09. The 009 maps are lambda from PV. But i dont think that there are any lambda maps for 08-09 through TTS to work with the 0-1v O2 sensors.
Quote from: wurk_truk on February 09, 2013, 08:00:43 PM
Combining some thoughts here. A 09 ECM would be TITS for you. Run a 205 cal, place the O2s near the heads, and be done with it. I'm running a 09 ECM, using 205 cals, and have the O2s right next to the ports.
I did this whole project to get away from throttle position maps and to get to lambda/MAP files. I could run a 009 map for the 0-1v O2 sensors but i would still need to redo the bungs b/c they are still the stock placement that work great for stock but not so much for a free flowing exhaust and drilling and welding is still needed and what ever O2 sensor setup I do it dosent matter what year the ecm is just that i have it wired correctly for 2 wire or 4 wire
Joe it's all part of learning. This is my collection of tuners for my bike. 7 if you count my tts was first a race tuner .
Maybe vision has some 2009 lambda maps ? I believe jamie responded somewhere on this thread when I asked about using 009 cals in 09 bikes at that time he said no?
I have a vision on mine now and just began tuning on it with my old tts map as a base.
So far so good.
(http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr327/strokerjlk/B3E4FD12-A9B4-4F9D-937F-2841205D241D-4221-000006A80654D757.jpg)
Dude I know its a huge learning process. I'm just looking at all of the 2009 maps from the PV website and looking at all of the software levels. I am just trying to get all of the information out that I can and at the same time learn something new b/c that just the way I am.
whats your fav and least fav device at your disposal there
Quote from: Jamie Long on September 11, 2012, 09:29:42 AM
Quote from: strokerjlk on September 10, 2012, 04:25:39 PM
Will there be any 205 lambda base maps?
I have a few sepst 205 lambda tuned bikes running around.( open loop and working out nice)
Have you tested any 205 lambda bikes in open loop?
Closed loop with wide bands ?
Narrow band closed loop? (12mm or 18mm)
All of our 205 cals are TPS X RPM. They are closed loop maps using the factory sensors, however one could certainly configure them in open loop if desired. We do not "currently" have the ability to run closed loop with Widebands.
QuoteDude I know its a huge learning processI'm just looking at all of the 2009 maps from the PV website and looking at all of the software levels. I am just trying to get all of the information out that I can and at the same time learn something new b/c that just the way I am.
then you missed this Dude
205 map is not lambda I know but the 44 and the 009 maps are. Which all of the 2009 maps are 009 based files not 202/205. Or are we talking about something different?
Oh? It matters GREATLY what year ECM you use. 09 ECM does NOT have the heater circuit for the 12mm O2s. If you are set in stone on running Lambda base cals, you will need a 2010up ECM. As, the internal programming is different enough to scare me off. You most likely will not get anyone to issue you a 2009 base cal in Lambda to start with. So... then you ARE stuck with 009 or 044 base cals.
I am running the 09 on a 2010 bike, because I traced out all of the wiring from the diagrams for both years and the 09, and I assume 08, ECM has the pin NOT wired for the heaters until 2010. So, this is what allowed me to use the 09 ECM on a 10 bike. I used the same wiring harness down to the grey and white plugs, THEN ran a two wire from these and abandoned the heater circuits that were non existent in the 09 ECM.
In all reality, couldn't you tune open loop with the Vision and use the AT100 kit in the 18mm bungs?
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on February 10, 2013, 01:01:22 PM
205 map is not lambda I know but the 44 and the 009 maps are. Which all of the 2009 maps are 009 based files not 202/205. Or are we talking about something different?
the only tuner I know off that will load a 2010. 44 or 009 lambda cal in a 2009 bike is a sepst.
the ones I have done are open loop.
I did run one in closed loop with the 18mm sensors operating for about 25 miles on the street. I returned it to open loop ,but it ran fine for that time frame.
I was only making reference to you being upset having to buy a new tuning lic. when I posted the pic of the tuners i have used on my own bike. in order to learn we have to spend money. I should have quoted your previous post ..sorry
I will show you
[attachment removed after 60 days by system]
See
[attachment removed after 60 days by system]
Stock maps on the 09 bikes are level 218 maps and are lamda.
If you run the PV you can extract the stock map and run it as a lamda calibration.
Depending on the mods you have done to the motor there is a way to run the PV with the 2009 CVO level 218 calibration which is setup for the 110 motor and a better starting point.
TTS & SEPST never released 218 calibrations for whatever reason.
Quote from: wurk_truk on February 10, 2013, 01:04:38 PM
Oh? It matters GREATLY what year ECM you use. 09 ECM does NOT have the heater circuit for the 12mm O2s. If you are set in stone on running Lambda base cals, you will need a 2010up ECM. As, the internal programming is different enough to scare me off. You most likely will not get anyone to issue you a 2009 base cal in Lambda to start with. So... then you ARE stuck with 009 or 044 base cals.
I am running the 09 on a 2010 bike, because I traced out all of the wiring from the diagrams for both years and the 09, and I assume 08, ECM has the pin NOT wired for the heaters until 2010. So, this is what allowed me to use the 09 ECM on a 10 bike. I used the same wiring harness down to the grey and white plugs, THEN ran a two wire from these and abandoned the heater circuits that were non existent in the 09 ECM.
In all reality, couldn't you tune open loop with the Vision and use the AT100 kit in the 18mm bungs?
The heater circuit is powered by the system relay and the ecm just acts as the ground for it and the other two wires go to the same spot i do believe so the circuitry has always been there just like the -05 ecms and the O2 sensor setup before 06 itjust needed to be enabled. Did you ever try puting a 205 cal into the 2010 ecm and see what it would do?
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on February 10, 2013, 01:34:47 PM
See
I am looking at it now in the software looks like lambda to me. :up:
and you can turn the heater on/off ...buy a new lic and rock on.
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on February 10, 2013, 02:02:22 PM
Quote from: wurk_truk on February 10, 2013, 01:04:38 PM
Oh? It matters GREATLY what year ECM you use. 09 ECM does NOT have the heater circuit for the 12mm O2s. If you are set in stone on running Lambda base cals, you will need a 2010up ECM. As, the internal programming is different enough to scare me off. You most likely will not get anyone to issue you a 2009 base cal in Lambda to start with. So... then you ARE stuck with 009 or 044 base cals.
I am running the 09 on a 2010 bike, because I traced out all of the wiring from the diagrams for both years and the 09, and I assume 08, ECM has the pin NOT wired for the heaters until 2010. So, this is what allowed me to use the 09 ECM on a 10 bike. I used the same wiring harness down to the grey and white plugs, THEN ran a two wire from these and abandoned the heater circuits that were non existent in the 09 ECM.
In all reality, couldn't you tune open loop with the Vision and use the AT100 kit in the 18mm bungs?
The heater circuit is powered by the system relay and the ecm just acts as the ground for it and the other two wires go to the same spot i do believe so the circuitry has always been there just like the -05 ecms and the O2 sensor setup before 06 itjust needed to be enabled. Did you ever try puting a 205 cal into the 2010 ecm and see what it would do?
I did with a sepst. i didnt go any farther than just seeing if the bike would run. it did
"I did with a sepst. i didnt go any farther than just seeing if the bike would run. it did"
i know that the O2 sensor reading would be off but i bet it would tune/run fine if you wired the the 0-1v correctly.
What 205 cal did you have that was lambda? was it a file that they obsoleted?
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on February 10, 2013, 02:22:26 PM
"I did with a sepst. i didnt go any farther than just seeing if the bike would run. it did"
i know that the O2 sensor reading would be off but i bet it would tune/run fine if you wired the the 0-1v correctly.
What 205 cal did you have that was lambda? was it a file that they obsoleted?
it wasent lambda it was a 205cal i just put in a 2010 009 bike.
I been doing some playing with my bike and vision today. I dont have a splitter for the auto tune yet. but just using the vision to flash maps with and data collecting with twinscan.....it is a breeze and I can still use my normal monitors....pretty sweet :koolaid: :koolaid4:
Quote "Will there be any 205 lambda base maps?
I have a few sepst 205 lambda tuned bikes running around.( open loop and working out nice)
Have you tested any 205 lambda bikes in open loop?
Closed loop with wide bands ?
Narrow band closed loop? (12mm or 18mm)" Reply 127
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on February 10, 2013, 03:00:16 PM
Quote "Will there be any 205 lambda base maps?
I have a few sepst 205 lambda tuned bikes running around.( open loop and working out nice)
Have you tested any 205 lambda bikes in open loop?
Closed loop with wide bands ?
Narrow band closed loop? (12mm or 18mm)" Reply 127
I should have worded it diff.
maybe jamie would have understood also.
there are 009 lambda 2009 touring sepst maps as well.
never used one in closed loop.
My reading of the schematics are this: the heater circuit runs directly from the ECM to the O2s. FWIW to ya, Joe.
Quote from: wurk_truk on February 10, 2013, 04:40:39 PM
My reading of the schematics are this: the heater circuit runs directly from the ECM to the O2s. FWIW to ya, Joe.
Where else does the Y/Gn wire go to other than the ecm or the O2 sensor heater circuit? (system relay output power 12v) If you have an 08-09 bike and want the small O2 sensors you could run a 12v power to the O2 sensor heater pin/wire 1 and run the grounds to ecm pin 31 and use the existing two sensor wires then put a 10 and up map into the ecm I bet it will run fine and dandy. 09 and 10 bikes had the same ECM just different settings for the different O2 sensor voltage and to turn on the heater ground (which as stroker mentioned with PV you can turn off those heater grounds) So mainly what I am trying to say is that if I get any year of fbw ecm from 08 to 13 I can put a 205/202, 044, or 009 map in it and would be fine I have done it on multiple occasions with bikes to try and test for problems. Ex. Put a known good 08 ecm into a bike and flashed a stock 11 map in and it ran fine with no issues. Wish I still had that 08 ecm. Hindsight 20/20
That is REALLY good info Joe! Really good. Thanks
Hi folks,
I am about to buy the PV autotune kit with the wideband lambdas.
If I made my autotune turns and flashed the new map on my ECM, should I remove the wideband lambdas, or could i use them further without the PV permanently plugged?
Greetings from Germany
Bernhard
FLSTC 2011 96cui, with S&S teardrop aircleaner an Kess Tech slip on.
:missed:
Quote from: sakbm on February 18, 2013, 05:30:27 AM
Hi folks,
I am about to buy the PV autotune kit with the wideband lambdas.
If I made my autotune turns and flashed the new map on my ECM, should I remove the wideband lambdas, or could i use them further without the PV permanently plugged?
Greetings from Germany
Bernhard
FLSTC 2011 96cui, with S&S teardrop aircleaner an Kess Tech slip on.
:missed:
I would take the wide bands out. When you do some other mods put them back in to retune.
If you want to run closed loop then use the stock sensors .
This way you always have a good set of wide bands to instal if you need to retune.
Hi strokerjlk,
thank you for your fast answer!
Bernhard :up:
Today, I've done a log to check if everything is allright after few monthes without the PV on the handlebar.
And I've been surprised to sea lots of knock retards on front cyl and often -8° and sometimes twice.
[attach=0]
I wonder if a chaotique VE table could generate such knock retards and if the smooth function can eliminate them ?
:scratch:
[attachment removed after 60 days by system]
Quote from: hdmanillac on March 03, 2013, 12:49:29 PM
Today, I've done a log to check if everything is allright after few monthes without the PV on the handlebar.
And I've been surprised to sea lots of knock retards on front cyl and often -8° and sometimes twice.
[attach=0]
I wonder if a chaotique VE table could generate such knock retards and if the smooth function can eliminate them ?
:scratch:
I would need to see the calibration specifically and know a bit more about your combination, however I would look closely at the timing tables in the 2250-2500 RPM 80-100kPa range as this is where the detonation is occurring in your example.
It is also pulling timing at 15 kpa. That's decel. Can you post your Cal?
Quote from: hrdtail78 on March 05, 2013, 03:54:28 PM
It is also pulling timing at 15 kpa. That's decel. Can you post your Cal?
This example shows first hand the effect of the knock retard as it degrades. When the ECM picks up detonation, knock retard reduces timing based on several variables one of them which is time based. A good example is say a bike experiences a hard ping at 80kPa and you immediately roll out of the throttle, in many cases knock retard is still pulling timing for several more seconds and you are then very likely be in the lower kPa areas, this is exactly why the histogram above is showing knock retard in the lower regions.
Quote from: Jamie Long on March 05, 2013, 04:26:06 PM
Quote from: hrdtail78 on March 05, 2013, 03:54:28 PM
It is also pulling timing at 15 kpa. That's decel. Can you post your Cal?
This example shows first hand the effect of the knock retard as it degrades. When the ECM picks up detonation, knock retard reduces timing based on several variables one of them which is time based. A good example is say a bike experiences a hard ping at 80kPa and you immediately roll out of the throttle, in many cases knock retard is still pulling timing for several more seconds and you are then very likely be in the lower kPa areas, this is exactly why the histogram above is showing knock retard in the lower regions.
Cooool. Never even thought of the decay.
Ron
Atached are the stock cal (FLHR 2009), my tuned cal.
As you can see, VE are lower and AFR leaner in tuned cal than in stock cal. So, even if spark is lower there is knock retard.
Maybe AE table is not strong enough to compensate this lean combustion waiting for CLI to operate.
:doh:
So at the moment I've done:
AFR decrease
Spark stock again (higher))
Wonder if I must increase AE table a little bit.
Thank you for your help.
[attachment removed after 60 days by system]
is the RK B&E Base EGR AT3.2.pvt call the one you are running that triggered the spark knock data? my guess is you do not have well developed VE tables on that cal. How well did you do collecting data around 2-2.5k at the heavier loads while creating the new tune? I think your VE values on those areas are low.
If the VE tables are not right the desired AFR tables will not be right, but I would suggest taking the 85 kPa column out of closed loop (take it to 13.8 or less, 13.5 is probably where I would try running the 2-3.75k cells). You still need the ve table cells to be right, but this will at least add some fuel to those ranges.
Yes "RK B&E Base EGR AT3.2.pvt" is the cal I was running that triggered the spark knock data.
The process used to collect datas was Autotune. What makes you say VE are not correct ? To low compare to other bikes equiped with same exhaust ?
Thanks for your help.
:up:
Quote from: hdmanillac on March 07, 2013, 04:06:28 AM
The process used to collect datas was Autotune.
using stock sensors, or the wide band kit? did you do a good job of collecting data in the heavy load areas of the 2-2.75k rpms? if you didn't let the tuning system see much of those areas, it will not do a good job of populating those cells.
Quote from: hdmanillac on March 07, 2013, 04:06:28 AM
What makes you say VE are not correct ? To low compare to other bikes equiped with same exhaust ?
simple answer, no since I do not see the exhaust you are running posted anywhere (that's a hint by the way, the best way to get help is to post all applicable info).
That is too low based on all the other ve tables I've seen from well developed ve tables, and you should not typically see a case where the 80-95 kPa columns are less than the 70 kPa columns . When I look at the front cylinder of your tuned cal, I see a big hole in the ve tables around 90-95 kPa columns of the 2.5k-2.75k rows, which coresponds with the spark knock issues you are having. Most of the time, guys doing their own street tuning misses these areas because they do not know how to load the bike to reach those ranges so they don't get good data there.
Ok here is some more informations about my bike:
FLHR 2009
Arlen Ness Big Sucker
HD non catalytic head pipes
B&E Superflow 2'' mufflers
Stock cams
I used stock cal as base cal to develop VE with autotune basic. Maybe I did not spent enough time around 90-95 kPa columns of the 2.5k-2.75k rows to get valuable VE. I think I'going to tune my bike in Pyrenees Mountains with my wife behind to improve tunning in this area of the map.
:up:
Can't you review histograms to be certain where you are collecting data with Pv?
Mountain riding is THE best spot to collect data, but I think you should learn how to view histograms .
Don't forget to some nice long decels coming downhill.
What do you mean by histograms ? Do you mean Hit Count ?
:embarrassed:
Yes. There will be somekind of screen where you can visually SEE how many hits you are making in each area you are trying to tune. What you want to do is learn how to ride, (hills, etc.,) that makes the most hit counts in ALL areas. With your bike, being it's Lambda, right? You should be able to hit each and every cell with lots of data, because data collected is everything. The more data, the more you can be certain the VEs are dialed in better.
Working the heck out of the bike to gather as much data, for VEs, is THE most important thing to get the hang of while street tuning. You really do want EVERY Delta to have less than a 5% change between runs before even considering moving to timing, etc. And, you want to have that kind of 5% or less changes a couple times, too. Not just once. If you think you are done collecting data for VEs... go do it a couple more times for the fun of it... you will be surprised.
Ok, may be the problem is here. Because I've done only 4 sessions of 45 minutes each covering a maximum of cells but not all.
:nix:
Give this map a try and then do some good logging and see how it does.
[attachment removed after 60 days by system]
Ok Thanks. I'll try this map that is very closed to the last évolution I've done myself.
Nearly the same on AFR
And I put 1,15 on AE multiplier.
:up: :wink: :up:
For throttle blade, how did you do that ? And for VE did you use smooth function or something else ?
The throttle blade control is something that I have learned from a good teacher and I did do the smooth function to the whole map and then did my own interpolation. i love that smooth function, I like to copy/paste from other tuning programs and the copy/paste it back.
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on March 07, 2013, 10:24:35 AM
...i love that smooth function, I like to copy/paste from other tuning programs and the copy/paste it back.
Joe,
Can you elaborate on this technique please?
Bob
Sure. I have a tts file that i will copy the whole ve table to the pv software setup for th same format. Then highlight the whole map or peak/valley areas and then right click, smooth, copy then paste back to tts.
[attachment removed after 60 days by system]
One smooth.
[attachment removed after 60 days by system]
Is that for OL tunes you do that for?
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/08/3y3e8abu.jpg)Change with one smooth.
Quote from: hrdtail78 on March 07, 2013, 12:05:58 PM
Is that for OL tunes you do that for?
mainly just closed loop. I use it mainly for getting rid of sharp peaks and valleys and making a "smoother" transition where needed. I dont always do this to the whole map but in areas that need attention.
Won't the VE be pulled back once the O2's come on line?
Quote from: wurk_truk on March 07, 2013, 08:44:24 AM
Can't you review histograms to be certain where you are collecting data with Pv?
Mountain riding is THE best spot to collect data, but I think you should learn how to view histograms .
Don't forget to some nice long decels coming downhill.
Unless new firmware that I haven't tried yet has it, I don't believe you can look at a histogram to see which cells filled and how many hits. It displays on the little screen as your riding, but I never found a way to transfer that screen to a computer for later review. I always wanted to see the VE Delta and relate it to hits during my tuning to see how much good data I got.
New firmware was released in late October, but I haven't done any tuning since before that.
Quote from: hrdtail78 on March 07, 2013, 01:28:16 PM
Won't the VE be pulled back once the O2's come on line?
They could also be moved along in the right direction to speed things up, couldn't they? I seem to recall some success by trying this. :nix:
Ron
Quote from: hrdtail78 on March 07, 2013, 01:28:16 PM
Won't the VE be pulled back once the O2's come on line?
Sometimes yes sometimes no. Just depends where you smooth it. It has worked for me before to be able to show me the where spikes in the map are at be it low or high.
I've used smoothing after a few collection runs, then smooth in the range that I know I can hit again, and then do some follow-on collections. I think it does speed up the process a little and the result is a slightly smoother VE map and running motor. Some call BS, but it seems to work fine. I would not smooth as the final stage though.
I'm not calling BS. I'll blend the cells after generating a new cal. I'll do it each time, and you can see how one cell does affect the other. After mapping the VE's and timing with outside source. I Vtune the area the bike is going to run CL. Along with the EGR tables. It does make for a smooth, responsive runner.
Edited to add: Blending means outside the area of my data collection.
As of yet, I am a bit leery of too much smoothing. If the smoothing takes this out of 'happy ECM" range, the AFVs will come into play to bring it back in line. NOT a good thing at all.
I like manually smoothing, for now, because I can readily see if something is out of whack. Too much AFV effect will make the tune go sour later. One can tell really easily if this is happening by clearing the AFVs or reloading the exact same tune into the bike. If it immediately runs crisper, the AFVs are killing the bike, because the VEs are out of whack.
It is NOT about a 'pretty' graph. Remember that that 'graph' does NOT exists inside of our ECMs. Sometimes there WILL be a need for a cell to be 'out of range' looking, when it really IS on the money. EG: remember that 60 map cell isn't only 60, it encompasses all the way from like 54 to 65 MAP, AND... the row above and below too. What we SEE is just an HMI for us Humans to 'see' whats happening. EGR will have different effects even when using the various EGR tools.
I need to play with this a bit more. I am basically leery of just about ANY automated task. But... I plan to get over this, one-by-one as I try different things: Direct link 'auto fill"; TTS timing tools; 'smoothing' VEs; etc.
I, myself, will now try this smoothing automation because Mark and Joe says it works well. Now I assume me and Jason will try it all out too.
Mark? DIYers CAN teach, too. So hang in there, Mark. This IS a GREAT site. THE best TUNING site anywhere.
Quote from: Ken R on March 07, 2013, 01:32:53 PM
Quote from: wurk_truk on March 07, 2013, 08:44:24 AM
Can't you review histograms to be certain where you are collecting data with Pv?
Mountain riding is THE best spot to collect data, but I think you should learn how to view histograms .
Don't forget to some nice long decels coming downhill.
Unless new firmware that I haven't tried yet has it, I don't believe you can look at a histogram to see which cells filled and how many hits. It displays on the little screen as your riding, but I never found a way to transfer that screen to a computer for later review. I always wanted to see the VE Delta and relate it to hits during my tuning to see how much good data I got.
New firmware was released in late October, but I haven't done any tuning since before that.
Not a histogram per se! But What I do is save my data log runs and they run them in Log Tuner you can see how many hits in what cells VEs Timing etc. I hit print screen key and save the screen shots. I can go back any time and look at VE hit count for front, rear and look at timing tables.
Quote from: wurk_truk on March 07, 2013, 07:01:48 PM
As of yet, I am a bit leery of too much smoothing. If the smoothing takes this out of 'happy ECM" range, the AFVs will come into play to bring it back in line. NOT a good thing at all.
I like manually smoothing, for now, because I can readily see if something is out of whack. Too much AFV effect will make the tune go sour later. One can tell really easily if this is happening by clearing the AFVs or reloading the exact same tune into the bike. If it immediately runs crisper, the AFVs are killing the bike, because the VEs are out of whack.
It is NOT about a 'pretty' graph. Remember that that 'graph' does NOT exists inside of our ECMs. Sometimes there WILL be a need for a cell to be 'out of range' looking, when it really IS on the money. EG: remember that 60 map cell isn't only 60, it encompasses all the way from like 54 to 65 MAP, AND... the row above and below too. What we SEE is just an HMI for us Humans to 'see' whats happening. EGR will have different effects even when using the various EGR tools.
I need to play with this a bit more. I am basically leery of just about ANY automated task. But... I plan to get over this, one-by-one as I try different things: Direct link 'auto fill"; TTS timing tools; 'smoothing' VEs; etc.
I, myself, will now try this smoothing automation because Mark and Joe says it works well. Now I assume me and Jason will try it all out too.
Mark? DIYers CAN teach, too. So hang in there, Mark. This IS a GREAT site. THE best TUNING site anywhere.
Not that I know much but eventually I started to look at it as a 4 block unit in say a given rpm/kpa zone. Otherwords DIYer open loop low end tuning if I felt if one ve area needed some attention, all next cells left right, above and below got some attention as well. Don't know, but it seemed I got more effect this way. I call it block tuning.
Ron
As I understand:
If a bike is properly tuned and in closed loop operation, changing the VE values will return to where they were prior to the "forced" VE changes...wherever the bike is run in the changed areas.
That said, smoothing VEs in open loop operation will remain unchanged.
Bob
Quote from: FLTRI on March 08, 2013, 06:21:26 PM
As I understand:
If a bike is properly tuned and in closed loop operation, changing the VE values will return to where they were prior to the "forced" VE changes...wherever the bike is run in the changed areas.
That said, smoothing VEs in open loop operation will remain unchanged.
Bob
It seems some cals have some spikes in them as delivered. If smoothed prior to tuning it would seem more of a natural starting point. Then let the vtune accept or change it as the tune progresses. Don't see the harm in it and there could be some gain. :nix: A lot depends on how the cal was done prior to loading it and what caused the spikes since each engine is different.
Ron
Quote from: rbabos on March 08, 2013, 05:59:53 PMNot that I know much but eventually I started to look at it as a 4 block unit in say a given rpm/kpa zone. Otherwords DIYer open loop low end tuning if I felt if one ve area needed some attention, all next cells left right, above and below got some attention as well. Don't know, but it seemed I got more effect this way. I call it block tuning.
A 4 block unit is indeed the correct way to think about it. This is why spreadsheet tuning will never work as well as an algorithm written for the task. You are never in a single cell. You're always influencing 4 cells for every sample.
Quote from: ToBeFrank on March 08, 2013, 07:27:46 PM
This is why spreadsheet tuning will never work as well as an algorithm written for the task. You are never in a single cell. You're always influencing 4 cells for every sample.
Most riding involves constant load transitions which makes block (spreadsheet) tuning work fairly well?
What's the down side?
What doesn't work as well?
Bob
Hello guys,
Some news of my bike. This morning, I've done 2 logs of 25 minutes with the Joe Lyons VE on the attached cal rev 4.
Here is the result. Significant improvement in term of Front cyl spark knock
[attach=0]
My feeling is that the bike is more punchy when overtaking cars on small roads. Great improvement today.
Thank you all.
Joe I'm really impressed by your smooth function.
:up:
[attachment removed after 60 days by system]
Quote from: hdmanillac on March 09, 2013, 02:56:06 AM
Joe I'm really impressed by your smooth function.
he didn't just smooth, he fixed your heavy load ve tables where the holes were. you can probably start adding back in some of the timing you pulled out now.
That's what I've already done. And the PVLogTuner screen above is the result.
:up:
Thanks and your welcome. You always wana make sure you have 6r12 spark plugs and stock wires also when relying on ion sense also but that kind of spark retard event things look good.
Quote from: hdmanillac on March 09, 2013, 03:55:22 AM
That's what I've already done. And the PVLogTuner screen above is the result.
:up:
did you generate a new ve in those areas? or did you just do spark data logging?
smoothing is ok to get you closer,but by no means a replacement for actually hitting the areas.
if you have spark data there,you should also be able get ve hits there.
No, no new VE. I did this log with the VE provided by Joe. An I've done a simple log without Autotune or a specific datalog cal.
To get the spark knock analysis I only use PVLog Tuner with a pvv file generated with the Joe cal, and the log obtained as described above.
Go out and do a basic "auto-adjust" and see how things change from there to see where your O2 sensors are taking you. And then you can compare the before and after from the smoothed map to the adjusted one.
Ok I'll do that.
:up:
What was your rhyme or reason for your spark tables on the decell and idle area?
I put the stock spark tables back because they are more efficient at heavy loads. But they are also designed with low advance at iddle. As AFR is reacher than stock at iddle on this cal, I think 24 ° advance would be better than 16°. I need to improve this area even if everything seems to be ok now. But I guess this summer, heat will build up at iddle if I let 16° instead of 24°.
:scratch:
Quote from: hdmanillac on March 09, 2013, 11:44:01 PM
I put the stock spark tables back because they are more efficient at heavy loads. But they are also designed with low advance at iddle. As AFR is reacher than stock at iddle on this cal, I think 24 ° advance would be better than 16°. I need to improve this area even if everything seems to be ok now. But I guess this summer, heat will build up at iddle if I let 16° instead of 24°.
:scratch:
Have you looked at the ve diff between 16deg and 24 deg at idle?
20 deg would be fine IMO .
The rest of the timing is a little aggressive . even after you get the ve's correct, your going to see a few areas pull timing here and there . Expecially if your doing data runs and trying to make it ping . But your knock activity isn't that bad now actually .
So, I'm just coming back from 2 log sessions.
The 1st one is a basic auto-adjust to see where o2 sensors are taking VE.
The 2nd one is a simple log with the tuned cal and 25% in AE mulitplier instead of 20%.
First, I must say that the bike hasn't run so well since I started tweaking the Stage 1 one year ago... :embarrassed:
Heavy loads when accelerating are very pleasant now. :teeth:
Ping seems to be ok now but maybe it would be reasonnable to put a safety margin...
[attach=0] [attach=1]
Attached are the tuned cal (altered by Joe) and the same after a basic auto-adjust.
for Iddle Spark Advance, I think 20° would be nice, better then 16°.
:up:
[attachment removed after 60 days by system]
QuotePing seems to be ok now but maybe it would be reasonnable to put a safety margin...
you could take a couple deg out and be fine. looks good :up:
might even smooth it out a little more.do you get any buzz in the floorboards now?
No, no buzz in the floorboards. Everything seems to be ok.
:up:
Just tried to marry my PV to 07 Dyna. Initially it would not marry or read ECM.
Scratched the head for a bit, reinstalled stock map .MTE with my TTS and then lo n behold the PV married up to my bike.
Is this normal, PV would not recognise the MT7 file at all. My understanding was the PV would read any map that was in the ECM.
Basically, PV would not function as intended with MT7 map installed.
Quote from: Ozbob on March 31, 2013, 10:31:14 PM
Just tried to marry my PV to 07 Dyna. Initially it would not marry or read ECM.
Scratched the head for a bit, reinstalled stock map .MTE with my TTS and then lo n behold the PV married up to my bike.
Is this normal, PV would not recognise the MT7 file at all. My understanding was the PV would read any map that was in the ECM.
Basically, PV would not function as intended with MT7 map installed.
If you used v1.60 or above of the TTS software to write the MT7 files then that is why the PV would not work as the ECM is locked.
Writing the MTE file back unlocked it.
If you write the ECM with v1.57 of below of the TTS software the PV would have read it.
Ahhh! I see, sort of, lol. I'm using V1.6.1.
I created myself a bit of havoc for a while, stock map reinstall failed and wiped the ECM. Got it sorted though.
Shame the TTS will overwrite anything that is in the ECM but the PV won't. Until I get a map that's close for my latest incarnation of the 120, I gotta keep going back to my last TTS tune to get the thing to even start. Bit messy to start with.
Another question, PV tables max at 6000-6500 rpm, What happens if/when an engine goes beyond, say 7000-7500 rpm. I know not a lot/most engines will not rev that high, but some do, depends on what application the engine was built for.
Does the ECM just use last known parameters???
Quote from: Ozbob on March 31, 2013, 10:51:49 PM
Ahhh! I see, sort of, lol. I'm using V1.6.1.
I created myself a bit of havoc for a while, stock map reinstall failed and wiped the ECM. Got it sorted though.
Shame the TTS will overwrite anything that is in the ECM but the PV won't. Until I get a map that's close for my latest incarnation of the 120, I gotta keep going back to my last TTS tune to get the thing to even start. Bit messy to start with.
Another question, PV tables max at 6000-6500 rpm, What happens if/when an engine goes beyond, say 7000-7500 rpm. I know not a lot/most engines will not rev that high, but some do, depends on what application the engine was built for.
Does the ECM just use last known parameters???
The PV maps I am looking at all go to 8000rpm for the spark advance.................am I missing something here?
Just realised that I was looking at a 2012 Dyna Map and your are loading a 2007 Dyna map.................... :bf:
Can you put your MT7 file back in with v1.57 and read the ECM again? (If so then you will understand why TTS lock the ECM to stop this from happening now)
Not having a PV here to play with full time limits what I know.
Also found a couple of 2012 Dyna maps with Active Exhaust & Active Intake control so that is available.
I do have a real early version, 1.4, but I'm onto the reasons now, cheers.
Yeah I see the 2012 maps have 8k rpm worth of spark, but still only 6.5k rpm of VE adjustment.
07-11 maps have only 6k rpm f spark and 6.5k rpm of VE adjustment. I would like to see at least 7k rpm for all tables.
Any idea what happens when the engine exceeds those rpm limits?
Quote from: Ozbob on April 01, 2013, 01:00:48 AM
I do have a real early version, 1.4, but I'm onto the reasons now, cheers.
Yeah I see the 2012 maps have 8k rpm worth of spark, but still only 6.5k rpm of VE adjustment.
07-11 maps have only 6k rpm f spark and 6.5k rpm of VE adjustment. I would like to see at least 7k rpm for all tables.
Any idea what happens when the engine exceeds those rpm limits?
No I would not like to guess either you might need to ask Dynojet about that one.
Have emailed the question to DJ, will wait n see.
Anybody else out there think the 07-11 maps could use another 1000rpm at the top end of all tuneable tables. I mean, 6000 rpm of spark can't be enough, my last WOT dyno run went to 6500, rev limit is set at 6750.
Or am I missing something completely here?
I have PE disabled normally.
So, you sayin the ECM will use last known parameters(VE,Spark) to run above tabled RPM limit?
Quote from: Ozbob on April 01, 2013, 08:04:42 AM
I have PE disabled normally.
So, you sayin the ECM will use last known parameters(VE,Spark) to run above tabled RPM limit?
Or, there are unseen tables that extend beyond what you are seeing.
Ron
Quote from: hrdtail78 on April 01, 2013, 08:17:59 AM
Quote from: Ozbob on April 01, 2013, 08:04:42 AM
So, you sayin the ECM will use last known parameters(VE,Spark) to run above tabled RPM limit?
Yes, that's how it works with the other tuning devices and 99.99999% sure that's how PV handles it. Hopefully somebody else can chime in and take care of that .00001%.
I would agree with 78. Kinda like the closed throttle spark
Since the title is PV questions I have one. In limits and switches there are 4 PE settings. I'm not clear on this. Both my stock vrod cal and pv cal have the pe function enabled via tps. In the rpm settings they are disabled. Is this an option to go with either or method and presently using tps to enable it? It's odd the stock bike cal has it set the same way so I doubt it's actually disabled from the factory.
Ron
Hi,
The weathers getting better so now its my first attemps to try the autotune basic. Please excuse the basic question as I have seen some very in depth descriptions and answers on this thread.
Ive attached a screenshot after a short autotune session, it looks to be working fine but I have no idea what its actually displaying in the fields, while I was standing stationary the 1250rpm box counted all the way to 99, is this correct ?
what is the meaning of the different colors red, orange and green and why are some 99 and red ?
I have a Vrod Muscle and ive read that you have to change the operating temperatures in the autotune setup, is this absolutely required ?
and in some screens the temperature on the PV shows degrees C while others show degrees F, anyone know if theres a setting to make them all the same and what temps to use for the Vrod ?
Sorry for so many questions, but any help gratefully recieved.
[attach=0]
[attachment removed after 60 days by system]
Page 19-20 in the autotune pdf covers how to set the temps . vrod should be set low=160 and max 230f. If you open WinPv and load the calibration you are using, go to optioins at the top and then setup, metric and imperiall are your choices.
Ron
Thanks Ron,
From the screenshot of the PV in my post, does it look like its operating correctly ?
Am I best autotuning the original or a canned map ?
Thanks, Jeff
Quote from: upnorthbiker on April 03, 2013, 02:11:11 PM
Thanks Ron,
From the screenshot of the PV in my post, does it look like its operating correctly ?
Am I best autotuning the original or a canned map ?
Thanks, Jeff
Can't help you on the operating correctly part since I've yet to use the damn thing due to spring taking it's time arriving. After viewing the original I would not do that unless first upping the clbs to 625 or so. In that case might as well use the Stock Improved from the software downloads at Dynojet. Tuning the stock cal with such low clbs don't seem fruitfull in my view. It would tune too lean when done. Just my observations on that.
Ron
Quote from: upnorthbiker on April 03, 2013, 10:37:35 AM
Hi,
The weathers getting better so now its my first attemps to try the autotune basic. Please excuse the basic question as I have seen some very in depth descriptions and answers on this thread.
Ive attached a screenshot after a short autotune session, it looks to be working fine but I have no idea what its actually displaying in the fields, while I was standing stationary the 1250rpm box counted all the way to 99, is this correct ?
what is the meaning of the different colors red, orange and green and why are some 99 and red ?
I have a Vrod Muscle and ive read that you have to change the operating temperatures in the autotune setup, is this absolutely required ?
and in some screens the temperature on the PV shows degrees C while others show degrees F, anyone know if theres a setting to make them all the same and what temps to use for the Vrod ?
Sorry for so many questions, but any help gratefully recieved.
[attach=0]
U are off to a good start. The numbers you see are hits of information per say and the more the better. You need to get more of the higher areas. Prob cruise in a lower gear at higher rpm.
Quote from: upnorthbiker on April 03, 2013, 10:37:35 AM
Hi,
The weathers getting better so now its my first attemps to try the autotune basic. Please excuse the basic question as I have seen some very in depth descriptions and answers on this thread.
Ive attached a screenshot after a short autotune session, it looks to be working fine but I have no idea what its actually displaying in the fields, while I was standing stationary the 1250rpm box counted all the way to 99, is this correct ?
what is the meaning of the different colors red, orange and green and why are some 99 and red ?
I have a Vrod Muscle and ive read that you have to change the operating temperatures in the autotune setup, is this absolutely required ?
and in some screens the temperature on the PV shows degrees C while others show degrees F, anyone know if theres a setting to make them all the same and what temps to use for the Vrod ?
Sorry for so many questions, but any help gratefully recieved.
[attach=0]
Green - You still need more hits in that area
Yellow - You almost have enough hits in that area
Red - You have enough hits in that area per the values set in the PV (the default used to be 5, it looks like yours is 10) The greater the number of hits, the more reliable the data will be. It tops out at 99.
NBF:O NBR:O - Narrow band sensor front is open (not recording), Narrow band sensor rear is open (not recording). This is perfectly normal.
VE+ The conditions are changing too rapidly or moving between VE table cells.
Practice smooth, deliberate throttle movement as this helps to eliminate the NBO and VE+ messages.
Hello Again Everyone,
Thankyou so much for the answers, that got me going goon. Been out today and done some autotune basic with very positive results.
Bike running very smooth with no surging at all, and boy is it a good game to hit those cells, some just dont want to know.
Ok, so happy with the results and went home, loaded WinPV and did a compare to the canned map I started with.
Why has the engine displacement gone from 76 cubic inches ( I have a V rod ) to 80.0 cubic inches on the Autotune map ?
Do I change it back to 76 or leave it at 80.8 ?
Thankyou again and hope someone knows the answer to my latest question.
Jeff
Leave it as it is. It bumps the CI up to help with some high areas of the ve table.
Thanks Joe
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on April 06, 2013, 02:25:20 PM
Leave it as it is. It bumps the CI up to help with some high areas of the ve table.
Joe: Would this be from using the scale button instead of the cap button during the export process or does it do it on it's own? Cap is obvious but until this post never gave much thought on what the scale part did. It would makes sense it would increase CI to counter the 127 max ve's.
Ron
Yes the scale will change the CI and cap won't and it will stop at the 127.5 and not do anything past that.
Quote from: rbabos on April 06, 2013, 03:40:15 PM
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on April 06, 2013, 02:25:20 PM
Leave it as it is. It bumps the CI up to help with some high areas of the ve table.
Joe: Would this be from using the scale button instead of the cap button during the export process or does it do it on it's own? Cap is obvious but until this post never gave much thought on what the scale part did. It would makes sense it would increase CI to counter the 127 max ve's.
Ron
Mine increased the ci 3 times . When basic tuning up to 70'kpa. Then 2 more times when I increased to 80 kpa in close loop . I am at 16 street runs now , and it's running pretty sweet.
Quote from: strokerjlk on April 06, 2013, 07:10:44 PM
Quote from: rbabos on April 06, 2013, 03:40:15 PM
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on April 06, 2013, 02:25:20 PM
Leave it as it is. It bumps the CI up to help with some high areas of the ve table.
Joe: Would this be from using the scale button instead of the cap button during the export process or does it do it on it's own? Cap is obvious but until this post never gave much thought on what the scale part did. It would makes sense it would increase CI to counter the 127 max ve's.
Ron
Mine increased the ci 3 times . When basic tuning up to 70'kpa. Then 2 more times when I increased to 80 kpa in close loop . I am at 16 street runs now , and it's running pretty sweet.
Is this on your 120 with a new tune done with PV in basic? So, for an overall DIY road tuning device how do you like it?
Ron
Quote from: rbabos on April 07, 2013, 09:45:51 AM
Quote from: strokerjlk on April 06, 2013, 07:10:44 PM
Quote from: rbabos on April 06, 2013, 03:40:15 PM
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on April 06, 2013, 02:25:20 PM
Leave it as it is. It bumps the CI up to help with some high areas of the ve table.
Joe: Would this be from using the scale button instead of the cap button during the export process or does it do it on it's own? Cap is obvious but until this post never gave much thought on what the scale part did. It would makes sense it would increase CI to counter the 127 max ve's.
Ron
Mine increased the ci 3 times . When basic tuning up to 70'kpa. Then 2 more times when I increased to 80 kpa in close loop . I am at 16 street runs now , and it's running pretty sweet.
Is this on your 120 with a new tune done with PV in basic? So, for an overall DIY road tuning device how do you like it?
Ron
Yes on my 120 cranking 225 ccp . I used a mt 7 from version 1.57 as my base .
It was from my 120 with RH/TD's and cranking 185 ish
Wegner 2-1 is on lt right now.
I like it real well. It has dialed in quite nice .
It gets hot pretty quick at idle. And I have a lean spit when you blip the throttle at idle here and there . Not untill it is running 245-260 ET Though
Quote from: strokerjlk on April 07, 2013, 12:22:33 PM
Quote from: rbabos on April 07, 2013, 09:45:51 AM
Quote from: strokerjlk on April 06, 2013, 07:10:44 PM
Quote from: rbabos on April 06, 2013, 03:40:15 PM
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on April 06, 2013, 02:25:20 PM
Leave it as it is. It bumps the CI up to help with some high areas of the ve table.
Joe: Would this be from using the scale button instead of the cap button during the export process or does it do it on it's own? Cap is obvious but until this post never gave much thought on what the scale part did. It would makes sense it would increase CI to counter the 127 max ve's.
Ron
Mine increased the ci 3 times . When basic tuning up to 70'kpa. Then 2 more times when I increased to 80 kpa in close loop . I am at 16 street runs now , and it's running pretty sweet.
Is this on your 120 with a new tune done with PV in basic? So, for an overall DIY road tuning device how do you like it?
Ron
Yes on my 120 cranking 225 ccp . I used a mt 7 from version 1.57 as my base .
It was from my 120 with RH/TD's and cranking 185 ish
Wegner 2-1 is on lt right now.
I like it real well. It has dialed in quite nice .
It gets hot pretty quick at idle. And I have a lean spit when you blip the throttle at idle here and there . Not untill it is running 245-260 ET Though
Damn throttle blippers. :hyst: Nothing a couple of adjustments won't cure between that and the idle temps. :wink:
Actually got out for the first time today and did a couple runs. Didn't run too bad on the first autotune. Exported that and ran another. Slight occaisonal burb in light load from the first run was gone. Exported second run and went to get some smokes with no autotune running. Could not detect anything that pissed me off. I will do more for sure but damn it seems really good right now. More runs to come as weather permits.
Ron
Quote from: rbabos on April 07, 2013, 12:50:23 PM
Quote from: strokerjlk on April 07, 2013, 12:22:33 PM
Quote from: rbabos on April 07, 2013, 09:45:51 AM
Quote from: strokerjlk on April 06, 2013, 07:10:44 PM
Quote from: rbabos on April 06, 2013, 03:40:15 PM
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on April 06, 2013, 02:25:20 PM
Leave it as it is. It bumps the CI up to help with some high areas of the ve table.
Joe: Would this be from using the scale button instead of the cap button during the export process or does it do it on it's own? Cap is obvious but until this post never gave much thought on what the scale part did. It would makes sense it would increase CI to counter the 127 max ve's.
Ron
Mine increased the ci 3 times . When basic tuning up to 70'kpa. Then 2 more times when I increased to 80 kpa in close loop . I am at 16 street runs now , and it's running pretty sweet.
Is this on your 120 with a new tune done with PV in basic? So, for an overall DIY road tuning device how do you like it?
Ron
Yes on my 120 cranking 225 ccp . I used a mt 7 from version 1.57 as my base .
It was from my 120 with RH/TD's and cranking 185 ish
Wegner 2-1 is on lt right now.
I like it real well. It has dialed in quite nice .
It gets hot pretty quick at idle. And I have a lean spit when you blip the throttle at idle here and there . Not untill it is running 245-260 ET Though
Damn throttle blippers. :hyst: Nothing a couple of adjustments won't cure between that and the idle temps. :wink:
Actually got out for the first time today and did a couple runs. Didn't run too bad on the first autotune. Exported that and ran another. Slight occaisonal burb in light load from the first run was gone. Exported second run and went to get some smokes with no autotune running. Could not detect anything that pissed me off. I will do more for sure but damn it seems really good right now. More runs to come as weather permits.
Ron
after 16 data runs I pulled the map and took it to open loop at idle and up to 2250
closed loop to 60 kpa from 2500 to 3500. thats a lot because this motor cruises with me solo at 33 kpa. 70 mph 2700 rpms. i have a little knock activity going on here and there . but it runs a lot cooler now.the ET never got above 232 with the new afr table. i set clb at 699 and I am going to see what it does. I guessed at 80-100 kpa ve's and it hauls azz 120 mph in 4th from a 3000 rpm roll on is instant. CI is at 155 now.
I think you are going to love it Ron
Auto tuned my 2010 Flhx, oil temps dropped by 30F.
Very happy with the tune developed by the PV, 96ci, 48's, VH true duals and SE AC.
Just about to start tuning my freshened 120 with the Pro tune setup, should be interesting.
I have a question, I have an 08 Flhx, 103 vtr street port, propipe with s&s 510c's, I have done 9 tuning runs using basic, the bike runs pretty good for the most part except when I quickly roll on to wot. It will cough and backfire, it doesn't do it when I ease it to wot. I am thinking I need to increase my AE value? Not sure how much though. I the calibration it is set for 1, I have attached a copy of the calibration, thanks in advance for any help anyone can give me with this-Terry
[attachment removed after 60 days by system]
I think your ve tables need some work. It looks to me like they are not very well populated in the early rpm/heavy throttle cells.
Quote from: flatfifth2003 on April 08, 2013, 04:41:50 AM
I have a question, I have an 08 Flhx, 103 vtr street port, propipe with s&s 510c's, I have done 9 tuning runs using basic, the bike runs pretty good for the most part except when I quickly roll on to wot. It will cough and backfire, it doesn't do it when I ease it to wot. I am thinking I need to increase my AE value? Not sure how much though. I the calibration it is set for 1, I have attached a copy of the calibration, thanks in advance for any help anyone can give me with this-Terry
It might do this if in autotune mode since it's disabled during those runs. If it does it with the cal normally, I'd guess at adding 2 points globally at a time until the hesitation is cured. The 5% ve area does look low which could be the cause also. Problem is if you manually up these, it will revert back over time. Maybe chase this area up with charge dilution before screwing with the AE table? More knowledgable will chime in soon with possibly better info.
Ron
it does it when its running on the cal, I'm going to increase the ae multiplier globally to 1.25 and do some more at runs to work on the ve's where they need it, and reread the sticky on egr and see what I need to do there if ae doesn't resolve it. Thanks for the replies-Terry
Quote from: flatfifth2003 on April 08, 2013, 06:38:45 AM
it does it when its running on the cal, I'm going to increase the ae multiplier globally to 1.25 and do some more at runs to work on the ve's where they need it, and reread the sticky on egr and see what I need to do there if ae doesn't resolve it. Thanks for the replies-Terry
I would sort the ve table out first. AE might not need adjusting then. Work those areas more in autotune and failing that play with the egr.
Ron
Ok, I'll try that first glad I checked back before I headed out thanks!
Hi,
Thanks for the help on this forum, Ive got the bike running pretty good with Autotune basic now. Pulls strong, no backfiring or pops on decel and cruise is smooth. Only thing is, if you blip the throttle it sort of hesitates then revs up. I read in an earlier post from Rbabos that it was only a couple of adjustments. Any chance you want to share those adjustments please ?
Thanks again.
Jeff
Quote from: upnorthbiker on April 20, 2013, 10:43:49 AM
Hi,
Thanks for the help on this forum, Ive got the bike running pretty good with Autotune basic now. Pulls strong, no backfiring or pops on decel and cruise is smooth. Only thing is, if you blip the throttle it sort of hesitates then revs up. I read in an earlier post from Rbabos that it was only a couple of adjustments. Any chance you want to share those adjustments please ?
Thanks again.
Jeff
Could be your amount of accel fuel. Try lowering it or raising it from the default setting and see if it improves. However, blipping also exposes the area of the ve's you may not have hit well enough yet and they may not be correct causing the problem you have. I find it tough to hit a few areas consistantly of the cal in autotune with the v rod. What I get is a few random hits, enough to see a pattern happening. Then I smooth, interpolate the unhit cells from the highest left ones on the right over to the hit left cells.
You can see what numbers it's trying to achieve in the table , more or less. Next runs with autotune there will be way less adjustment needed and they fill faster giving you more smoothing info. I find the v rod difficult to fill large areas of the ve tables. It seems to operate in a very narrow diagaonal area and takes extremes to hit TPS% areas beyond this in road tuning. You will definately need to ride the brakes and twist the throttle at the same time to fill them better. Do this briefly, let the brakes cool and do it again. Throw in a few first gear runs close to rev limit as well. Mind you by then it's hit 60mph in first. :banghead: I've got about 2 more runs after my last smoothing and I'm calling done after one final smoothing. It runs good everywhere now then I'll do a milage check. Twisting two 53mm throttle bodies autotuning sure eats up fuel big time.
Ron
Thanks Ron,
Your so right that the Vrod seems to like a diagonal aross the map and its very hard to hit some of the cells either side of it.
I'm not sure what you mean by " What I get is a few random hits, enough to see a pattern happening. Then I smooth, interpolate the unhit cells from the highest left ones on the right over to the hit left cells.You can see what numbers it's trying to achieve in the table , more or less. "
Are you using WinPV to compare the cell from the start tune map, then manually entering VE' thats close to VE's in adjoining cells or is there a smoothing software I need to use ?
Thanks again for the help and sorry if my questions are dumb.
Jeff
Quote from: upnorthbiker on April 21, 2013, 03:00:18 AM
Thanks Ron,
Your so right that the Vrod seems to like a diagonal aross the map and its very hard to hit some of the cells either side of it.
I'm not sure what you mean by " What I get is a few random hits, enough to see a pattern happening. Then I smooth, interpolate the unhit cells from the highest left ones on the right over to the hit left cells.You can see what numbers it's trying to achieve in the table , more or less. "
Are you using WinPV to compare the cell from the start tune map, then manually entering VE' thats close to VE's in adjoining cells or is there a smoothing software I need to use ?
Thanks again for the help and sorry if my questions are dumb.
Jeff
I've been saving my exported runs in the tune file. I print them and look at my advancement. Within that diaganol area there will be unhit areas with lower (close to base cal) values. I blend these into the surrounding cells and specifically work this area only to confirm what I did. Since a lot depends on how the cells were filled with road tuning and they can vary +/-5 depending on technique. I have one specific cal that represents how I ride this thing, it becomes my base now. I will take those specifically worked areas and manually add these values to my custom base cal blend and leave the rest alone. Once done with all that, I will make another final run driving the bike semi normal and compare these values, final smoothing and done. Just want to be sure there's no bloated decel values present. Last thing will be a mpg check to see if that's decent.
Ron
Thanks Ron, I need to do some more runs and save these tunes to find the trend, then try your technique of smoothing.
I will let you know how I get on.
Jeff
Looking through WinPV, I see no table similar to TTS IAC Crank to Run. Is there such a beast, or am I missing it? I find this table useful.
Still on the fence on whether to switch from TTS to PV for my 120R...
Has anyone tuned a 120 or similar larger displacement motor with PV yet? Also, virtually no mention of anyone using Auto Tune Pro (widebands).
I have tuned a couple 120's with PV .
I use wide bands but not auto tune pro.
Nice tuner . If you like to see what's going on while riding? It's priceless.
Pretty cool just setting up all the gauges
Like watching the kpa change going with the wind and against the wind.
I was running 65 mph with the wind at 35-37 kpa in 6th two up .
Turned around and was running 45-51 kpa against the wind .
Lots of bells and whistles . :up:
Mine will be here today :up:
Quote from: VDeuce on April 22, 2013, 12:08:51 PM
Looking through WinPV, I see no table similar to TTS IAC Crank to Run. Is there such a beast, or am I missing it? I find this table useful.
Still on the fence on whether to switch from TTS to PV for my 120R...
Has anyone tuned a 120 or similar larger displacement motor with PV yet? Also, virtually no mention of anyone using Auto Tune Pro (widebands).
In options, choose pro level and more tables will appear in the cal items.
Ron
Quote from: rbabos on April 22, 2013, 01:33:51 PM
Quote from: VDeuce on April 22, 2013, 12:08:51 PM
Looking through WinPV, I see no table similar to TTS IAC Crank to Run. Is there such a beast, or am I missing it? I find this table useful.
Still on the fence on whether to switch from TTS to PV for my 120R...
Has anyone tuned a 120 or similar larger displacement motor with PV yet? Also, virtually no mention of anyone using Auto Tune Pro (widebands).
Ron, I have it in Pro mode - still don't see that table.
Quote from: strokerjlk on April 22, 2013, 12:23:37 PM
I have tuned a couple 120's with PV .
I use wide bands but not auto tune pro.
Nice tuner . If you like to see what's going on while riding? It's priceless.
Pretty cool just setting up all the gauges
Like watching the kpa change going with the wind and against the wind.
I was running 65 mph with the wind at 35-37 kpa in 6th two up .
Turned around and was running 45-51 kpa against the wind .
Lots of bells and whistles . :up:
I've just started playing with doodads too now that my tuning is done. I'm amazed at how much range each throttle % has between points vrs rpms. Thought it wasn't reading right at first since I had to rev the snot out of it to see 4%. Turned bike off and twisted the grip. All 100% is there. Wonder what effect this has for tuning since some cells are next to impossible to hit on the road. Just plain misses them repeatedly. No problem that's what blending is for. :wink:
Engine temp, volts , and afr requested on display for now. If I get bored looking at that, there's a whole shitload more to look at. I'm extemely pleased with the tune and using the PV.
Ron
Quote from: VDeuce on April 22, 2013, 01:34:37 PM
Quote from: rbabos on April 22, 2013, 01:33:51 PM
Quote from: VDeuce on April 22, 2013, 12:08:51 PM
Looking through WinPV, I see no table similar to TTS IAC Crank to Run. Is there such a beast, or am I missing it? I find this table useful.
Still on the fence on whether to switch from TTS to PV for my 120R...
Has anyone tuned a 120 or similar larger displacement motor with PV yet? Also, virtually no mention of anyone using Auto Tune Pro (widebands).
Ron, I have it in Pro mode - still don't see that table.
Don't know. I have it in my v rod cal. Originally I didn't have an O2 heated switch. I sent them the cal and it came back with one, probably to make me go away. :hyst: Could be an option for you too.
Ron
Quote from: rbabos on April 22, 2013, 01:46:01 PM
Quote from: VDeuce on April 22, 2013, 01:34:37 PM
Quote from: rbabos on April 22, 2013, 01:33:51 PM
Quote from: VDeuce on April 22, 2013, 12:08:51 PM
Looking through WinPV, I see no table similar to TTS IAC Crank to Run. Is there such a beast, or am I missing it? I find this table useful.
Still on the fence on whether to switch from TTS to PV for my 120R...
Has anyone tuned a 120 or similar larger displacement motor with PV yet? Also, virtually no mention of anyone using Auto Tune Pro (widebands).
Ron, I have it in Pro mode - still don't see that table.
Don't know. I have it in my v rod cal. Originally I didn't have an O2 heated switch. I sent them the cal and it came back with one, probably to make me go away. :hyst: Could be an option for you too.
Ron
Ah the old hidden table trick, lol! Perhaps that is the case. I did get Pat at Dynojet to send me a starting base cal for a 120R, but since mine has the 662-2 cams, I don't know how far off it'll be vs a stock 120R. I will probably bite the bullet and order the damned thing. I must love pain.
Then again, collecting data would be a whole lot easier than dragging that darned laptop around that loves to lockup after gathering 20 minutes of great data.
Quote from: VDeuce on April 22, 2013, 01:55:36 PM
Quote from: rbabos on April 22, 2013, 01:46:01 PM
Quote from: VDeuce on April 22, 2013, 01:34:37 PM
Quote from: rbabos on April 22, 2013, 01:33:51 PM
Quote from: VDeuce on April 22, 2013, 12:08:51 PM
Looking through WinPV, I see no table similar to TTS IAC Crank to Run. Is there such a beast, or am I missing it? I find this table useful.
Still on the fence on whether to switch from TTS to PV for my 120R...
Has anyone tuned a 120 or similar larger displacement motor with PV yet? Also, virtually no mention of anyone using Auto Tune Pro (widebands).
Ron, I have it in Pro mode - still don't see that table.
Don't know. I have it in my v rod cal. Originally I didn't have an O2 heated switch. I sent them the cal and it came back with one, probably to make me go away. :hyst: Could be an option for you too.
Ron
Ah the old hidden table trick, lol! Perhaps that is the case. I did get Pat at Dynojet to send me a starting base cal for a 120R, but since mine has the 662-2 cams, I don't know how far off it'll be vs a stock 120R. I will probably bite the bullet and order the damned thing. I must love pain.
Then again, collecting data would be a whole lot easier than dragging that darned laptop around that loves to lockup after gathering 20 minutes of great data.
I was incorrect. I don't have the iac crank to run either. In my case I never missed it or needed it. Sorry for the confusion. Cranking fuel stuck in my mind until I actually pulled up the cal. You still might be able to get the table from Pat.
Ron
Well I just pulled the trigger and bought one. Some might be excited to get a tool like this; for me it's :emoGroan: :wink:
I just hope I can get a decent tune out of this. I think I'll try basic auto tune first and if I think that gets it reasonable, I will pop for the widebands and hit the high KPA areas.
Quote from: VDeuce on April 22, 2013, 02:20:30 PM
Well I just pulled the trigger and bought one. Some might be excited to get a tool like this; for me it's :emoGroan: :wink:
I just hope I can get a decent tune out of this. I think I'll try basic auto tune first and if I think that gets it reasonable, I will pop for the widebands and hit the high KPA areas.
Cool, congrats on the new equipment :up:
Will power vision save my existing tuned TTS map or do I need to load my original MTE back in before I marry the PV to my bike?
depends on which version of Mastertune was used for tuning. If it was an older version, it will likely be able to pull it...if newer, very doubtful.
If the ECM is locked PV can't back it up. Been there, tried that.
If I move forward and it won't save it, then I need to load my MTE, then proceed with the marring/map loading process of PV?
It would be nice if I could start with my existing cal, the bike runs great, I would just like to be able to change mufflers without a complete tune..
I doubt you are running that old a version so it's not going to save. You would need to restore your factory cal to do anything with PV. Makes sure prior to all of this that you let PC update the PC software AND the PV software.
After that and you have your factory cal installed, you can download the closest map available for your build from DynoJet or request one from Fuel Moto. Once you have the map, you use the PC software to load it into a slot in the PV. Then hook it to your bike and install the map. The PV will ask if you want to marry them and then it will automatically save your stock map to the PV and load the new one.
When you connect the PV back to the PC, it will download the stock map to your PC for a backup.
Quote from: Durwood on April 24, 2013, 04:54:53 PM
If I move forward and it won't save it, then I need to load my MTE, then proceed with the marring/map loading process of PV?
It would be nice if I could start with my existing cal, the bike runs great, I would just like to be able to change mufflers without a complete tune..
You will need a close PV cal to start with. Mind you, you can view the existing you have with tts and use it for reference in the tables and go from there. The two don't play well with each other but pretty sure values in the tables can be manually transfered as a starting point. Could save a bit of time. Just a suggestion if you have a really good cal right now.
Ron
Thanks Keith :up:
Ron, Stroker has this thing running great, I am just messing around and would like to be able to make changes to the bike,like different mufflers without a complete new tune.
Besides you guys are having all the fun...LOL
Quote from: Durwood on April 24, 2013, 04:54:53 PM
If I move forward and it won't save it, then I need to load my MTE, then proceed with the marring/map loading process of PV?
It would be nice if I could start with my existing cal, the bike runs great, I would just like to be able to change mufflers without a complete tune..
I started with my TTS tune. I hand entered it into powervision via my desktop computer, cell by cell, table by table. There were some differences in cells, but not so much that I couldn't extrapolate to approximate the cell contents. Took 2 or 3 hours of tedium; but got it done.
Then I did tuning runs. The tune wasn't far off from what PV said it liked. Since then, I've done a dozen or so tuning runs. I think my motorcycle is running rather well. Starts easily, good gas mileage, etc.
Ken
Quote from: Ken R on April 24, 2013, 09:26:56 PM
Quote from: Durwood on April 24, 2013, 04:54:53 PM
If I move forward and it won't save it, then I need to load my MTE, then proceed with the marring/map loading process of PV?
It would be nice if I could start with my existing cal, the bike runs great, I would just like to be able to change mufflers without a complete tune..
I started with my TTS tune. I hand entered it into powervision via my desktop computer, cell by cell, table by table. There were some differences in cells, but not so much that I couldn't extrapolate to approximate the cell contents. Took 2 or 3 hours of tedium; but got it done.
Then I did tuning runs. The tune wasn't far off from what PV said it liked. Since then, I've done a dozen or so tuning runs. I think my motorcycle is running rather well. Starts easily, good gas mileage, etc.
Ken
I am looking forward to learning this thing, I am a Carb tuner, just gotta find where they hid the jets.. :smilep:
Oh yeah, Thanks Jim "Stroker" for the fast track to tuning 101 class.. :up:
Has anyone figured out how to lower the idle for doing auto tunes? I'm working with a 176 cal and it seems 900 is the lowest idle. I tried to drop it to 800 in the settings but it reverts back automatically to the default 900. Is everyone finding 900 sufficient?
Also, when the green hit screen is in datalog mode it shows the hits fine. BUT, there isn't a 750 row. There's a blank row above 1000 but it doesn't say 750 to the left of the row, nor does it never populate any hits in that row. Is one to assume that there's no data being collected and used to tune the idle area below 1000 rpm's?
Just curious how the idle area gets tuned. It seems strange to see nothing happening in the 750 row. What happens when your idle is set at lets say 950 or when you take off and drop below 1000 rpm's?
If the row isn't there. The program is defaulting to the row it has. Also if it doesn't have that row to collect in. It isn't going to matter if you can get that low. Kind of? I have seen differences where EGR tables can have an effect areas that might be higher depending on where I collect the data. Meaning that collecting at 68kpa might reach into the 70kpa row more than filling that block at 62kpa. BLM area is there is the saving grace. Meaning that this is a way I have seen AFR "hidden" tables working for our good.
There is a pv setting for min collection rpm. Just saw it tonight. I believe it is a pv setting, not a per map setting. It was set default to 900. I changed to 750.
I don't like the idea of setting the idle low. Think about it most of the time if you hit 750-900 it is going to be a higher kpa or some % of throttle so collecting it at low kpa or 0 throttle % is kinda pointless. If you wana collect the 750-950 area put the bike in 2nd and use your brake and clutch to mess with kpa or how much throttle you apply. Then you get those short take off areas that are harder to record.
Slow take off will see the 750 in the 50 and 60 kpa area. The Delphi ECM is still collecting and making changes to this area. Adjusting it and recording with a tuning device is another story.
Quote from: VDeuce on April 25, 2013, 08:05:03 PM
There is a pv setting for min collection rpm. Just saw it tonight. I believe it is a pv setting, not a per map setting. It was set default to 900. I changed to 750.
Did you go back and look to see if it stayed at 750? I change it to 800...save it...go back and look and it's right back to 900.
Quote from: hrdtail78 on April 25, 2013, 06:56:30 PM
If the row isn't there. The program is defaulting to the row it has. Also if it doesn't have that row to collect in. It isn't going to matter if you can get that low. Kind of? I have seen differences where EGR tables can have an effect areas that might be higher depending on where I collect the data. Meaning that collecting at 68kpa might reach into the 70kpa row more than filling that block at 62kpa. BLM area is there is the saving grace. Meaning that this is a way I have seen AFR "hidden" tables working for our good.
The row of boxes, just like the other rpm's, is there but the number 750 isnt there. Row 2 starts at 1000. It starts counting hits at the 1000 row. If it doesnt collect in the 750 row what should we be doing to fill in the ve's in the 750 rpm row? Make them a little lower than 1000? Make them the same as the 1000 row. Just looking for some clarification as to where the VE's in the 750 row come from.
QuoteI don't like the idea of setting the idle low. Think about it most of the time if you hit 750-900 it is going to be a higher kpa or some % of throttle so collecting it at low kpa or 0 throttle % is kinda pointless
:agree:
You could try and hit 6000 rpm 2% t/p and 30 kpa also.
pointless though .
Quote from: strokerjlk on April 26, 2013, 03:47:01 AM
QuoteI don't like the idea of setting the idle low. Think about it most of the time if you hit 750-900 it is going to be a higher kpa or some % of throttle so collecting it at low kpa or 0 throttle % is kinda pointless
You could try and hit 6000 rpm 2% t/p and 30 kpa also.
pointless though .
I disagree with you guys. Since all surrounding cells work together to establish the values used, I think that all surrounding cells should have data collected if at all possible while tuning. Say for instance if the bike is idling at 920 rpm at 38 kpa under normal conditions (once idle is adjusted for non tuning reasons), then the ecm is pulling data from the 750 rpm row at 30 kPa and 40 kPa columns as well as the 1000 rpm row at the 30 kPa and 40 kPa columns while at normal idle. I would not advocate using a idle that low during extended use (for oiling reasons), but I don't think it's a bad idea to to do this briefly for data collection purposes.
Exactly mayor. Collecting data just outside of the normal riding area. Makes for a better normal riding area. BLM's, AFR, whatever vision wants to label it. This is how the Delphi system works. It uses info from surrounding cells.
It's easy to see if you have the 750 row. Take the 750 row down to 30. Collect CL data at normal idle. Make note of how normal idle VE's went up?
Hopefully Vision comes out with an update that will show the 750 row.
Again, if the hit screen isn't showing data being collected in the 750 row what ve's should be manually put in the 750 row of the cal?
I agree with my mayor. I've always understood that the ECM looks at surrounding cells. Well, if the PV isn't correcting the cells ABOVE 1000 what is the procedure to manually adjust those cells?
Quote from: 07heri on April 26, 2013, 08:56:48 AM
Again, if the hit screen isn't showing data being collected in the 750 row what ve's should be manually put in the 750 row of the cal?
I agree with my mayor. I've always understood that the ECM looks at surrounding cells. Well, if the PV isn't correcting the cells ABOVE 1000 what is the procedure to manually adjust those cells?
1-2 points below what the 1000 cells are below it. It really isn't all that critical as some make it out to be.
Ron
If you really wanted you can manually do it. If at 30 kpa at 1000rpm it is 40 and 750 rpm is 20 then make the 750 35 to 40 and you should be fine. I know most of the time my bike and most spend more time at a hair above 1000rpm than below it very much and so I don't worry about the 750 spot at 30kpa b/c yes the ecm blends between cells but I see it as percentages and so at 1050 rpm the 750 rpm spot has little to no affect on the ve look up table.
Quote from: rbabos on April 26, 2013, 09:24:09 AM
Quote from: 07heri on April 26, 2013, 08:56:48 AM
Again, if the hit screen isn't showing data being collected in the 750 row what ve's should be manually put in the 750 row of the cal?
I agree with my mayor. I've always understood that the ECM looks at surrounding cells. Well, if the PV isn't correcting the cells ABOVE 1000 what is the procedure to manually adjust those cells?
1-2 points below what the 1000 cells are below it. It really isn't all that critical as some make it out to be.
Ron
..and you have gleemed this info how? Critical? No, the bike isn't going to blow up. Is it something that can be done for smoother off idle transition to get bike rolling? You bet. Looking at data collected with other tuner that allow you to replay the histogram will/ can show you what rpm's you hit. Histogram can be played back on any data. Not just vtune.
Quote from: 07heri on April 26, 2013, 08:56:48 AM
Again, if the hit screen isn't showing data being collected in the 750 row what ve's should be manually put in the 750 row of the cal?
I agree with my mayor. I've always understood that the ECM looks at surrounding cells. Well, if the PV isn't correcting the cells ABOVE 1000 what is the procedure to manually adjust those cells?
I am not familiar enough with the Vision to say. My reasoning for having a horse in this is. I know I brought it up in your other thread to do this. Really wasn't trying to send you on a goose hunt. I was confused on what tuner you are using. I am sure somebody with more Vision usage than me can point you in the right direction.
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on April 26, 2013, 09:26:08 AM
If you really wanted you can manually do it. If at 30 kpa at 1000rpm it is 40 and 750 rpm is 20 then make the 750 35 to 40 and you should be fine. I know most of the time my bike and most spend more time at a hair above 1000rpm than below it very much and so I don't worry about the 750 spot at 30kpa b/c yes the ecm blends between cells but I see it as percentages and so at 1050 rpm the 750 rpm spot has little to no affect on the ve look up table.
I'm talking more of 40,50, and 60 kpa area's. The 750 below idle? I agree with what your saying.
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on April 26, 2013, 09:26:08 AM
If you really wanted you can manually do it. If at 30 kpa at 1000rpm it is 40 and 750 rpm is 20 then make the 750 35 to 40 and you should be fine. I know most of the time my bike and most spend more time at a hair above 1000rpm than below it very much and so I don't worry about the 750 spot at 30kpa b/c yes the ecm blends between cells but I see it as percentages and so at 1050 rpm the 750 rpm spot has little to no affect on the ve look up table.
If you have a 750 and 1000 row, and you're at 1050 rpm, the 750 row has zero effect.
quote hrdtail78 "..and you have gleemed this info how? "
With my magical powers of course. :wink:
Ron
Here's my point guys. TTS: it's common knowledge and practice to drop the rpm's down to 800 to dial in those areas. Then set it back to 1000, or whatever you prefer, when finished VTuning. Is there no reason behind this? Why is it so common to be told to do this if, like some are saying, it's pointless.
Now we have a new player on the block. Retailer sends out canned map set below 1000 rpms at idle. Yet, the device doesn't collect data in that area. The numbers in the canned map had to come from somewhere.
Even with the idle set at 1000. I have yet to see one sit there and idle at 1000 rpm's steady as a rock.
It just seems like there's no consistency in the answers. With one device it's a recommended process to lower the idle during VTunes. Another device doesn't seem to function this way. Some here say it doesn't matter. Same say it does matter. Is there no technically correct answer to this?
U got it. 10 diff tuners 10 diff answers.
I agree with Joe. I think that unless one tuner was trained by another tuner, each tuner has their own thought process on tuning. One important thing to note is that all the flash tuners (TTS, PV, DL, SEPST, etc) are really only just allowing us to access the tables in the Delphi ECM. If I understood Steve Cole correctly a few years ago, the segmentation of columns and rows for the ve tables were something that was added by the tuning systems and is not necessarily how the inter workings of the Delphi system is. That could explain why one system handles the VE tables differently than another. Maybe tobefrank could comment on whether I understand correctly.
Quote from: 07heri on April 26, 2013, 06:15:45 PM
Here's my point guys. TTS: it's common knowledge and practice to drop the rpm's down to 800 to dial in those areas. Then set it back to 1000, or whatever you prefer, when finished VTuning. Is there no reason behind this? Why is it so common to be told to do this if, like some are saying, it's pointless.
I think there is a few schools of thought here. One is the folks that don't think there is much difference in engine airflow characteristics at 750 rpm as there is at 1,000 rpm's. They feel that close enough, is close enough since the built in afr sensor feedback of the closed loop system will bring the sampled afr in line with what is desired anyway. Second is the folks that move the ve values/afr table values around to establish a desired afr value at a fixed rpm point, and then take the closed loop function out of the equation. Third is the OCD types that want the most accurate air mapping of the engine as you can get to avoid potential closed loop operation issues. I fit into the OCD type. :unsure: I'm sure there are more, but those are likely why so many different answers.
Quote from: 07heri on April 26, 2013, 06:15:45 PM
It just seems like there's no consistency in the answers. With one device it's a recommended process to lower the idle during VTunes. Another device doesn't seem to function this way. Some here say it doesn't matter. Same say it does matter. Is there no technically correct answer to this?
welcome to tuning. when it comes to idle, I think the only true technically correct answer is does the bike idle smoothly and does it idle an a manner that doesn't build up excessive heat. If you managed to get those two things right, then the idle is likely fine. If the at idle the engine continues to "search" then you haven't dialed in the tuning parameters close enough. When it comes down to it, there is only two variables you are working with (timing and fuel pulsewidth), but there seems to be a dozen or so ways of adjusting them. :teeth:
Here's my take on the missing 750 table. It has to be there . At normal idle and below the 750 table does little so don't worry about it. If in autotune mode place load on the engine with clutch and drag the engine down to 750 without moving the throttle. This will pick up the kap area right of normal idle. Now same procedure keep the 750 rpm but add a touch more throttle , ride the clutch as to not allow the engine to go past 750. This will hit more areas of higher load kpa areas in 750.
If the table is there which it is or the engine wouldn't run, it should also autotune this area in the background even if not visible. Export the tune and continue on with what you can see.
This should give decent values in the 750 higher kpa areas for getting the bike moving at slow rpms and transition to normal idle. A good hill, or wheel up against the wall gets it done for me.
In the end, you will know if it's right or not. The engine will tell you.
Ron
IMO If you have a tuner that will allow you to collect data in this area, and you have a good, safe way to collect the data. Why not take the five minutes to do so. I have a surge bank and voltage conditioner for my theta controller so my brake is smooth and doesn't hunt. I like to perform this with a brake on the cool side. I like the whole bike warmed up and engine temp around 200. I also have control over this. The build also comes into play. Some don't get this treatment. On the couple of trikes I have tuned on the street. I just do several take offs in second gear. The stage 1 hit these cell nicely and the Tman 107 build didn't drop the RPMs long enough to get great data.
Where these numbers come from? Either the stock cal or the guy that sent the cal came up with them however. Doesn't matter to me. Since VE's are a representation of the airflow through the engine. I like to get as much data collected for VE input as I can with the parts I am tuning. Different exhaust, injectors, cams..... Same recipe of a build will give different VE's. OCD? Maybe. I also have to look at the fact of. The customer brought it to me for a full tune. Not just mapping VE's. It was brought to me because of the equipment I have and my knowledge of using that equipment. I have read a lot of different tuning strategies on smooth idle. Some play with timing, some believe the CT spark table need to match main table for smooth idle. I have gotton there many, many times on the fuel side of things.
Mayor brings up a great point that I believe is forgotton or isn't kept at the front. With all the inputs into the ECM. Bottom line is. The only outputs it has is. Where to makes spark, and how long to hold injector open. The ECM doesn't have VE tables. That is our user interface.
....and if you don't do it exactly like me. It just means you have a different way. Not better, worse or wrong. Differnet. Explain it. How and why, back it up with good data. I always keep an open mind.
HFT.
Quote from: mayor on April 27, 2013, 04:20:07 AMIf I understood Steve Cole correctly a few years ago, the segmentation of columns and rows for the ve tables were something that was added by the tuning systems and is not necessarily how the inter workings of the Delphi system is. That could explain why one system handles the VE tables differently than another. Maybe tobefrank could comment on whether I understand correctly.
The values in the axes are known as breakpoints. In the ECM, a table such as the VE table is actually three tables. There is one table for the horizontal axis breakpoints (for a VE table, that would be the TPS or MAP values), one table for the vertical axis breakpoints (for a VE table, that would be the RPM values), and one table for the values (for a VE table, that would be the VE values). Tuning systems didn't add this functionality, it was always there in the ECM. They're just changing the values, just like you're doing when you modify the VE values. There's no technical reason the tuning software couldn't add these tables to the interface to allow you to set whatever breakpoints you want.
Quote from: hrdtail78 on April 27, 2013, 08:23:06 AMThe ECM doesn't have VE tables. That is our user interface.
Wurk kept saying this, and I still don't get it. The ECM absolutely does have VE tables. You're modifying them when you program the ECM. These tables are the basis of it's calculations.
I stand correct on that somewhat. The VE table we see is simplified compared to how the ECM uses it.
I think At least one flash tuner mfg should open up ALL tables and constants in the ECM for recalibration by the user.
That way we would have at least one mfg offer all variables adjustments available.
Their tech support may get a bit more lively but that's their job right? :sheep:
Bob
Quote from: hrdtail78 on April 27, 2013, 09:34:15 AMThe VE table we see is simplified compared to how the ECM uses it.
That I can agree with. There are many adjustments that are made to the VE before it ends up as an injector pulse width.
Quote from: FLTRI on April 27, 2013, 09:45:12 AM
I think At least one flash tuner mfg should open up ALL tables and constants in the ECM for recalibration by the user.
That way we would have at least one mfg offer all variables adjustments available.
Their tech support may get a bit more lively but that's their job right? :sheep:
Maybe TTS will accommodate you if you ask nicely.
Quote from: ToBeFrank on April 27, 2013, 10:00:06 AM
Quote from: FLTRI on April 27, 2013, 09:45:12 AM
I think At least one flash tuner mfg should open up ALL tables and constants in the ECM for recalibration by the user.
That way we would have at least one mfg offer all variables adjustments available.
Their tech support may get a bit more lively but that's their job right? :sheep:
Maybe TTS will accommodate you if you ask nicely.
Already did...a couple years ago and was informed TTS has enough to do just keeping up with elementary tech support from many who refuse to read the manual. :doh:
Bob
Would prob be a true can of worms. There is already enough there to fuck stuff up as it is and you add 20 more things to the pot. Release a new table once every year or two as the population becomes comfortable with whats there is prob better.
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on April 27, 2013, 06:36:18 PM
Would prob be a true can of worms. There is already enough there to "potty mouth! " stuff up as it is and you add 20 more things to the pot. Release a new table once every year or two as the population becomes comfortable with whats there is prob better.
The average one time home tune has plenty to work with as is. Pro's on the other hand that do this for a living would likely make use of the bells and whistles. I've always thought it would be nice to view what the AFV is doing in the tune but don't see that happening any time soon. Then again it seems I've finally been able to get a stable closed loop tune for my v rod . Imagine that. :hyst:
Ron
Quote from: rbabos on April 27, 2013, 07:16:16 PM
I've finally been able to get a stable closed loop tune for my v rod.
What was the key to getting your vrod to stable closed loop operation?
Vtuned? Where
didn't you get good sampling and what did you do to resolve the issues?
Since there are far fewer vrod owners it would be great and valuable info to learn how you corrected your o2 readings. :idea:
Thanks,
Bob
The starter map I got with mine is showing a 750 rpm column :nix:
Quote from: FLTRI on April 28, 2013, 09:54:04 AM
Quote from: rbabos on April 27, 2013, 07:16:16 PM
I've finally been able to get a stable closed loop tune for my v rod.
What was the key to getting your vrod to stable closed loop operation?
Vtuned? Where didn't you get good sampling and what did you do to resolve the issues?
Since there are far fewer vrod owners it would be great and valuable info to learn how you corrected your o2 readings. :idea:
Thanks,
Bob
You be confusing this bike with the other one. That 120 basically ended up 50/50 open, closed when I traded it in. I just couldn't dial the low end in any other way. I doubt very much even with good sampling the results would not be what the engine would like. Not a lot of drama with this one. Autotune went as it should and there's no hint of the tune changing. Warmup and idle is good as well. Sampling must be fairly decent on the stock v rod head pipes. Don't think many will have trouble vtuning or autotuning this one with stock head pipes. Right now as it stands it runs better than stock and better than the dealer tuned demo I rode. It popped like a bitch on each decel. I've not heard a single pop through the whole process. Demo bike had the V&H competition pipe on it. Nasty loud, leg burning bitch it was too.
Ron
Quote from: Durwood on April 28, 2013, 11:59:43 AM
The starter map I got with mine is showing a 750 rpm column :nix:
I got the 1k table in the v rod cal also. Equivilent of the 750 for the BT.
Kicker is I don't remember seeing a 1000 table in the green screen during auto tuning and reviewing my base cal to my present one that table has not changed even though I dragged the engine down to that level several times at the start of each run. :scratch: While my v rod will chug away from a standstill below the 1200 idle rpm it raises the question, if the 750 blocks are missing on the green screen does it even tune this area? Or does it do it in the background within the ecm but not visible? Pretty sure my autotune screen started at 1200 with the v rod cal. Now I need to take another look, with glasses this time. :embarrassed:
Ron
Quote from: rbabos on April 28, 2013, 12:14:06 PM
Quote from: FLTRI on April 28, 2013, 09:54:04 AM
Quote from: rbabos on April 27, 2013, 07:16:16 PM
I've finally been able to get a stable closed loop tune for my v rod.
What was the key to getting your vrod to stable closed loop operation?
Thanks,
Bob
You be confusing this bike with the other one.
Ron
:wtf: ?...
Bob
Quote from: FLTRI on April 28, 2013, 05:15:09 PM
Quote from: rbabos on April 28, 2013, 12:14:06 PM
Quote from: FLTRI on April 28, 2013, 09:54:04 AM
Quote from: rbabos on April 27, 2013, 07:16:16 PM
I've finally been able to get a stable closed loop tune for my v rod.
What was the key to getting your vrod to stable closed loop operation?
Thanks,
Bob
You be confusing this bike with the other one.
Ron
:wtf: ?...
Bob
:wtf: Pretty much what I said when I read your post.
Ron
Quote from: rbabos on April 27, 2013, 07:16:16 PM
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on April 27, 2013, 06:36:18 PM
Would prob be a true can of worms. There is already enough there to "potty mouth! " stuff up as it is and you add 20 more things to the pot. Release a new table once every year or two as the population becomes comfortable with whats there is prob better.
The average one time home tune has plenty to work with as is. Pro's on the other hand that do this for a living would likely make use of the bells and whistles. I've always thought it would be nice to view what the AFV is doing in the tune but don't see that happening any time soon. Then again it seems I've finally been able to get a stable closed loop tune for my v rod . Imagine that. :hyst:
Ron
[/quo
Ron- if you look at the closed loop integrator values, it will give an idea of how close your ve's are and how much things are going to drift over time. PV has this choice on the menu. It won't show real time afv but it should help somewhat
You can also look at VE and New VE with the gauge.
:nix:
After tuning mine...I run two of the gauges set on CLI for front and Rear ...you can monitor the map as your riding this way...100% most of the time... it may go to 96% or 105% but very seldom ... :up:
Quote from: HV on April 29, 2013, 08:34:26 AM
After tuning mine...I run two of the gauges set on CLI for front and Rear ...you can monitor the map as your riding this way...100% most of the time... it may go to 96% or 105% but very seldom ... :up:
Got signals set up to view other things at the moment. I will revisit the CLI and see what they area showing. Viewing other things shows a lot of weird stuff. Engine temp on a v rod being liquid cooled and having a thermostat it does not operate like a car at a fixed temp. It will range from 180s to 205 depending on air temp. There's a hell of a range between start temp of the thermostat open to full open and it's design likely causes this. My bike has low kpa. 25 at idle and 4k cruise at 100kph is only 38 @ 10% tps. Seeing all this going on in real time is cool. Oil temp closely follows engine temps also and have only seen 200 once.
Ron
Quote from: Durwood on April 28, 2013, 11:59:43 AM
The starter map I got with mine is showing a 750 rpm column :nix:
On my map it's there too. Just didn't see it collecting any hits there while auto tuning nor did any of the VE's change in the actual new map. Pretty much why I asked what's going on in the 750 row. I suppose just drop them down a point or two until someone says otherwise.
not all the .pvt maps I am looking at for my bike have the speedo calibration option in Tune Option..what's up with that..is there a way to add that line to a map file.
Hi,
I already had an AT100 that I used on 2 previous Dynas with PCV, both with good results. All I had to purchase was the longer leads and I could use it with the Powervision, so rather than leave it on a shelf its now installed, looks like its reading the widebands, in guages, dynojet, reading Lamda 1 and 2 shows a reading. Theres doesnt seem to be a lot of instructions about using Autotune Pro so please can anyone give me a start.
Are there any settings I need to change to run with the widebands ?
Do I just use it in Autotune then go back to the narrowbands when I have a good map ? or can I leave them in all the time ?
When I get a good map, if I go back to the factory lamdas will it use the map made with the widebands ?
And any other tips would be great.
Thanks for any help.
Jeff
Use the widebands to tune and when done replace with stock sensors.
All the manuals are here http://www.dynojet.com/Powervision/powervision-software-firmware-downloads.aspx?ProdType=Power%20Vision (http://www.dynojet.com/Powervision/powervision-software-firmware-downloads.aspx?ProdType=Power%20Vision)
:up:
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on May 09, 2013, 01:03:14 PM
Use the widebands to tune and when done replace with stock sensors.
when you do that are you going back and making sure the closed loop cells are in sync with the stock sensors?
If using the auto tune feature it only alters afr table when enabled once your done tuning you disable the feature and your afr table goes back to the way it was.
sorry, not what I was asking. I was wondering if you use the wide bands to auto populate the VE tables, whether or not you are going back and verifying that the narrow band agree with the populated values.
If sampled from the same spots they should be close but keeping an eye on your % change is a good idea.
Thankyou for the answers.
I went for my first autotune pro run tonight, just for about 45 minutes. First thing that I noticed was the cells fill in so much quicker than the narrowband sensors. So thats the first tune saved and all seems very good.
Jeff
Quote from: upnorthbiker on May 10, 2013, 02:26:38 PM
Thankyou for the answers.
I went for my first autotune pro run tonight, just for about 45 minutes. First thing that I noticed was the cells fill in so much quicker than the narrowband sensors. So thats the first tune saved and all seems very good.
Jeff
Jeff, what model bike do you have?
If it is a new softail or Dyna they are CAN bikes that have 10 times faster transfer rate.
Bob
Hi Bob,
Its at 2011 Vrod, with the widebands the sample rate is very fast especially compared to the factory sensors.
Jeff
When logging for spark with PV and PVLogTuner, is it necessary to set Adaptative Knock Retard table to zero ?
:scratch:
I would have to take a peek at my basic AT file that I saved but I would think that would be one of the things that it does.
New software release today but no comment from Dynojet !...
:pop:
Sweet I'll have to check it out when I get home.
Among the new features:
- Exhaust valve management on HDI models.
- New Iddle RPM live management (without flashing the MAP). You need a code to test that.
:up:
I've just installed my new AT110 Autotune Pro kit on my bike (FLHR09).
What should I do now ?
- Can I run the engine with the stock Map ? Is it necessary to change Closed Loop switch from "1" to "0" to desactivate closed loop mode ? As old sensors are off, connectors opened, is there any alarm to deal with ?
- Is it compulsory to run in Autotune Pro mode ?
Nothing about that in the installation guide.
:missed:
You got it. Shut off stock sensors, run pro mode and run it
Ok thanks Joe.
I'll run it in AT Pro mode only.
:up:
I've just try to do my first AT Pro cession today and the green screen stay empty during the datalog even if the bike is warmed.
When I click on Datalog, I've got a message that does not stay very long "No connection". Then it begin but the screen does not fill with hits.
What should I do ?
:scratch:
Are you able to view any AFR data live ? If you bring up the gauges can you view Dynojet data streams and you should be able to view a afr.
I can set a gauge with lambda 1 or 2 display from dynojet wide band 2 device.
With engine stopped I can read 32,77
:nix:
Did you install the can bus plug
That's true they do have a Y cable. Or you can just run regular positive and negative to it.
Yes the CAN BUS cable is connected. The connectors seems very cheap. I had to fix a problem with one pin on the CAN termination plug. It was a little bit twisted.
But it still does not communicate.
:emsad:
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on June 15, 2013, 04:36:37 PM
Or you can just run regular positive and negative to it.
Sorry Joe but I don't understand your assertion.
:embarrassed:
The wideband controller runs off of 12 V. I have ran into an instance where the data port was ready taken and just used an accessory power wire and ground to power the unit.
Ok, everything is allright now. The parameter "Max VE Learn" was set to "0".
I can't understand how I could have missed that !
:embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed:
Glad you got it fixed.
Tunig is nearly finiched. VE and Sparks with Autotune Pro. Really fast process !
Consumption is 43,4 MPG in AT PRo mode (Open Loop AFR 13). Is it correct for a 96ci ?
ET = 219.2°F in cruising mode. Is it correct ?
:scratch:
The fuel mileage feature has to be calibrated. Fill up bike, reset trip A, ride for a while, come back and fill back up then go to trip center and alter ratio of fuel used to match what the gas pump put into your bike. Mine was off by a bit but now it is 1.140 I think. The temp is fine for running at 13 afr
The consumption is my calculation after a fill up at gas station. I've never used the consumption indicator of the PV.
Thanks for your help.
Now AT Pro kit is removed. NB sensors are back on the bike and the new cal is in the ECM.
Test tomorow evening.
:chop:
Is it possible to run Open Loop with AFR 13 definitely ? My feeling was excellent with the bike like this during AT Pro sessions.
:scratch:
You can do whatever you wana do but I like my true 50 miles to the gallon that my bike is getting. There would be no point in the narrow bands if you don't utilize the afr table for them.
Waouh 50MPG, without any compromize on performance, that would be great !
:smile:
After VE completion, is it necessary to smooth the surface. I 've got some pings due to VE variation between 2 contiguous cells.
:scratch:
I must say.... I just came back from a trip to Laconia with my PV Tuned bike... my Fuel Milage was unreal... I got 50 MPG at times..and the bike Ran two up most of the time with a full load ... a roll on up a hill in a passing lane in 6th Gear gave me NO Pinging or any need to down shift to 5th ..Very impressive ...
Quote from: HV on June 26, 2013, 02:54:18 PM
I must say.... I just came back from a trip to Laconia with my PV Tuned bike... my Fuel Milage was unreal... I got 50 MPG at times..and the bike Ran two up most of the time with a full load ... a roll on up a hill in a passing lane in 6th Gear gave me NO Pinging or any need to down shift to 5th ..Very impressive ...
Have you calibrated your mpg setup. When I first got mine hooked up it was saying that I was getting 55mpg until I got it calibrated.
Yes it was 54 before ... now its 50 ... but has been a bit above in bad weather riding below the speed limit for a long time
Hi,
Ive got a 2011 V-rod Muscle and after an Autotune Pro some time ago, put the standard sensors back in and the bikes ran like a champ. Really smooth, even at 2000 rpm in 5th ( only for testing purposes ) plus an added bonus as fuel consumptions been averaging 38 mpg with a best of 41 mpg. Mods include Remus slip ons, standard baffles and K & N filter. Mileage is around 4200 miles.
Then 2 weeks ago after a road trip it started getting a bit jerky, hesitant even surging at low steady throttle openings. Still pulls strong and smooth but as soon as the throttles held for a constant speed the problem starts. To add to this problem the tickover rpm has dropped and is far from steady. No codes are showing. The fault is a bit worse when the engine is hot. Theres also a distinct delay when the throttles blipped to the engine rpm rising.
Ive replaced the spark plugs and checked all sensor plugs and wires. Throttle cables are lubed and adjusted ok. Throttle body sync is fine. Ive ran a fuel additive and always use premium fuel. IAC cleaned. No Exhaust or intake leaks seem present.
Ive been running with the PV display fitted to monitor displayed cells. All display seems ok, only one I am not sure of is of the MAP sensor, it shows no steady readings, even at tickover. Is this expected for this sensor ?
How else can I utilise the PV to help me fix my bike ?
I ride quite a bit between 2000 and 4000 rpm, could this have caused the fault ? will these rpms damage a v-rod engine ?
Thanks,
Jeff
I doubt those rpms would hurt at all. Hook up the PV and see what your AFF and CLI percentages are in the areas that feel bad. Post your map so we can have a look see.
Quote from: upnorthbiker on July 24, 2013, 03:41:25 PM
Hi,
Ive got a 2011 V-rod Muscle and after an Autotune Pro some time ago, put the standard sensors back in and the bikes ran like a champ. Really smooth, even at 2000 rpm in 5th ( only for testing purposes ) plus an added bonus as fuel consumptions been averaging 38 mpg with a best of 41 mpg. Mods include Remus slip ons, standard baffles and K & N filter. Mileage is around 4200 miles.
Then 2 weeks ago after a road trip it started getting a bit jerky, hesitant even surging at low steady throttle openings. Still pulls strong and smooth but as soon as the throttles held for a constant speed the problem starts. To add to this problem the tickover rpm has dropped and is far from steady. No codes are showing. The fault is a bit worse when the engine is hot. Theres also a distinct delay when the throttles blipped to the engine rpm rising.
Ive replaced the spark plugs and checked all sensor plugs and wires. Throttle cables are lubed and adjusted ok. Throttle body sync is fine. Ive ran a fuel additive and always use premium fuel. IAC cleaned. No Exhaust or intake leaks seem present.
Ive been running with the PV display fitted to monitor displayed cells. All display seems ok, only one I am not sure of is of the MAP sensor, it shows no steady readings, even at tickover. Is this expected for this sensor ?
How else can I utilise the PV to help me fix my bike ?
I ride quite a bit between 2000 and 4000 rpm, could this have caused the fault ? will these rpms damage a v-rod engine ?
Thanks,
Jeff
Had the same problem. Had to open loop these effected areas. 2,4,5% tps at around 30kpa. It would never tune it out in basic however wasn't bad at fresh cal load. Over a short time steady state miss would occur and progessively get worse over time, exactly at 5% at any rpm from 2250-3750. Mind you I have a DX with Factory exhaust with ST big shots. Since open loop in this area with ve blends and fattening up the afr in this area it's been Honda smooth in slow accel and steady state in all these previous problem rpms. 37 mpg is the best I've seen. Hottest days seem to get sightly better mpg then colder days. About .5 average difference.
Ron
FWIW, IME a well tuned Dyna should get over 40mpg...even on cornfuel.
Bob
Quote from: rbabos on July 24, 2013, 05:09:39 PM
Quote from: upnorthbiker on July 24, 2013, 03:41:25 PM
Hi,
Ive got a 2011 V-rod Muscle and after an Autotune Pro some time ago, put the standard sensors back in and the bikes ran like a champ. Really smooth, even at 2000 rpm in 5th ( only for testing purposes ) plus an added bonus as fuel consumptions been averaging 38 mpg with a best of 41 mpg. Mods include Remus slip ons, standard baffles and K & N filter. Mileage is around 4200 miles.
Then 2 weeks ago after a road trip it started getting a bit jerky, hesitant even surging at low steady throttle openings. Still pulls strong and smooth but as soon as the throttles held for a constant speed the problem starts. To add to this problem the tickover rpm has dropped and is far from steady. No codes are showing. The fault is a bit worse when the engine is hot. Theres also a distinct delay when the throttles blipped to the engine rpm rising.
Ive replaced the spark plugs and checked all sensor plugs and wires. Throttle cables are lubed and adjusted ok. Throttle body sync is fine. Ive ran a fuel additive and always use premium fuel. IAC cleaned. No Exhaust or intake leaks seem present.
Ive been running with the PV display fitted to monitor displayed cells. All display seems ok, only one I am not sure of is of the MAP sensor, it shows no steady readings, even at tickover. Is this expected for this sensor ?
How else can I utilise the PV to help me fix my bike ?
I ride quite a bit between 2000 and 4000 rpm, could this have caused the fault ? will these rpms damage a v-rod engine ?
Thanks,
Jeff
Had the same problem. Had to open loop these effected areas. 2,4,5% tps at around 30kpa. It would never tune it out in basic however wasn't bad at fresh cal load. Over a short time steady state miss would occur and progessively get worse over time, exactly at 5% at any rpm from 2250-3750. Mind you I have a DX with Factory exhaust with ST big shots. Since open loop in this area with ve blends and fattening up the afr in this area it's been Honda smooth in slow accel and steady state in all these previous problem rpms. 37 mpg is the best I've seen. Hottest days seem to get sightly better mpg then colder days. About .5 average difference.
Ron
:agree:
Make it happy :beer:
Quote from: FLTRI on July 24, 2013, 05:57:26 PM
FWIW, IME a well tuned Dyna should get over 40mpg...even on cornfuel.
Bob
Dyna sure and even more. V rod, 40 is a tall order even with the cruise clbs set to 500, the fatter low end kills mpg but needed to make it run as it should. Oddly enough I spend a lot of time in the 4-5% range 14.0 afr, between slower riders, traffic and going through towns. Burning more fuel here is a worthwhile trade off for me. I'll take silky smooth over the miss/hickup running any day. Bought the v rod knowing the milage would suck compared to the BT and it didn't let me down. :hyst: Have seen 38 mpg on the PV once on longer cruise runs where it's in closed loop so not too far out of the picture.
Ron
Hi joe_lyons50023,
Hooked up the PV tonight and went for a short run to get some info for the reply.
Dont know if I didnt do it right but Front and Rear both CLI and AFF showed 100% all the time, when riding, at tickover. I
When I selected these guages I used the default settings, so not sure if I havent done something right or I have a problem.
I have attached the map I made using the AT100 kit I already had from a previous bike and used it with the Powervision.
Thanks to the riders on this forum for the help, I really appreciate it.
Jeff
[attachment removed after 60 days by system]
Quote from: upnorthbiker on July 25, 2013, 12:49:03 PM
Hi joe_lyons50023,
Hooked up the PV tonight and went for a short run to get some info for the reply.
Dont know if I didnt do it right but Front and Rear both CLI and AFF showed 100% all the time, when riding, at tickover. I
When I selected these guages I used the default settings, so not sure if I havent done something right or I have a problem.
I have attached the map I made using the AT100 kit I already had from a previous bike and used it with the Powervision.
Thanks to the riders on this forum for the help, I really appreciate it.
Jeff
I noticed the same with the CLI. Reading 100 +/- a couple with the bike running like crap. I stopped looking at it. :hyst: Our ve tables are fairly close. If interested I can send you my cal as a comparison and reference for the low end. Not that mine is a quality tune but it has no more ill running in the low end below 4k.
Ron
Hi rbabos,
My CLI and AFF are stuck on 100% they dont even move +/- 1 or 2.
The bike ran great until the trip away like I said in my opening post.
Thank you for the offer and I would like to try your map for a comparison and I will update you on any difference.
You are very welcome to try mine.
I look forward to the weekend and hopefully find a fix.
Jeff
Quote from: upnorthbiker on July 25, 2013, 01:44:47 PM
Hi rbabos,
My CLI and AFF are stuck on 100% they dont even move +/- 1 or 2.
The bike ran great until the trip away like I said in my opening post.
Thank you for the offer and I would like to try your map for a comparison and I will update you on any difference.
You are very welcome to try mine.
I look forward to the weekend and hopefully find a fix.
Jeff
Like I say, just for low end comparison, and then if needed shift your map in the same direction as needed. I wouldn't use my complete cal since you could be more dialed in better in some areas and exhausts are different.
I had to extend my open loop areas due to it still reverting over time. Since that it's been stable. Failing that AFF will be 0'd out. Pm your email and I'll fire it off.
Ron
Hi rbabos,
PM sent.
Jeff
Select a data page that has the six position setup. Then you need to have both CLI, both AFF, Map and throttle position displayed. The AFF is a data stream that you will have to enable through the setup to enable advanced data to view AFF. The AFF is the long term learned percentage and the CLI is the short term. If the CLI is at say 80% for 20sec or so the AFF will start changing to get the CLI closer to 100 so AFF will start going to 80% so then the cli will hover close to 100. But if you are not even having the CLI move at all then you are out of closed loop and you tune is degrading without the nb sensors affecting it. I'm on my phone right now but is this area that you have a problem set to 14.6 on the AFR table in the calibration? Weird that it was such a sudden change.?
Come to think of it, my CLI were showing 100% in areas I switched to open loop. Seems I recall the cal he posted was all 14.5. That might be the connection, but I agree drastic change should not have happened in full open loop. I had some drift in mine but further extending the open area stopped it.
Ron
Hi Joe,
They are set at 14.5
Jeff
If your AFR table is set to 14.5 then closed loop is turned off and there was no point in putting back in your stock sensors. The afr table has to be set to 14.6 to have closed loop turned on and then to go richer or leaner from 14.6 you alter the bias tables. Try setting your afr in the map load areas that you have issues to 14 and then add a couple deg of timing in that same area and see how it does.
When do you think Power Vision will deal with MAP Tooth IVO and IVC ?
:unsure:
Quote from: hdmanillac on January 05, 2014, 04:23:17 AM
When do you think Power Vision will deal with MAP Tooth IVO and IVC ?
+103 !
Could be very usefull to get the best of perf cams as Wood & Cie...
And by the way, what about EGR/CDE in PV? Any evolution soon to help a good and accurate tuning?
They have it but it is not released as of yet to everyone. If you wish you can have dynojet redo your map tooth figures to match your cams.
Lower cde by the % you want to lower VE values. Note it only affects 60 kPa and below.
Thank you Joe. Always on top !
:up:
I'll send my cal to dynojet and continue the the tuning process for 96ci+48H stage 2.
:chop:
Joe beat me to it.. PV has been very helpful when it comes to alter the maps for the cam timing. By chance have you tried a map for a CVO 110? It has worked very well for us here.
No CVO map are delivered or downloadable for DPV.
How can I get such a CVO map ?
:scratch:
Quote from: hdmanillac on January 06, 2014, 09:59:37 AM
No CVO map are delivered or downloadable for DPV.
How can I get such a CVO map ?
:scratch:
Direct from DJ via email or anyone else willing to send you a copy.
Ron
Ok I've got one for FLHRSE13.
I'll see what I can do with that.
:up:
Dealing with CVO map for 96ci+A48H do you only change Engine displacement and tune VEs ? Or do you copy/paste some other tables from 96ci stock cal ?
:scratch:
The copy and paste method will be somewhat close but in no way exact. When going from one cal type to another copy paste isn't the most exact.
I would only alter CI . Set it at 100-103 to allow room and go from there. Last one I did I set it at 103 and the map was rich to start. The deal breaker is when you you set it at say 96 Ci and you run out of room the increase that PV will do fo you , you still have to retune it. SO better to start with it a bit larger in CI from the get go. COpy and past is in the ball park but it is just a starting point .
HA HA Joe posted it up first . :up:
Ok thanks a lot guys !
:up:
Hello Boyz !
This evening I've tried a CVO 044 cal in my 96ci+A48H.
I must say I'm fan !
Needed some adjustment like cranking fuel (reduced) and still need a Autotune Pro session to set everything properly but the result is there: good MPG, good torque and no ping at all.
:up: :chop: :up:
Quote from: joe_lyons50023 on November 05, 2012, 09:16:29 PM
I do wish there was a record feature to show you just the 20-60kpa data to better show you where the CDE woud affect but mabie the later update with the ivo/ivc crank tooth data. Spoke with Jamie about those 2 tune tables today and he said possibly a winter update.
been a LONG winter
It has been but I did say possible. :)
In my country there is no dyno machine for bikes, am using PV1 and I have did couple of auto tune session, the stock O2 wont's gave an correct reading and my concern that I don't know whats my real AFR.
I'm planning to buy AT-110 auto tune pro kit, Just want to know if i will be able to see the AFR on the PV device while using pro tune?
Sorry for my English
Thanks
Sarhan
Quote from: Sarhan on June 15, 2014, 02:53:49 AM
In my country there is no dyno machine for bikes, am using PV1 and I have did couple of auto tune session, the stock O2 wont's gave an correct reading and my concern that I don't know whats my real AFR.
I'm planning to buy AT-110 auto tune pro kit, Just want to know if i will be able to see the AFR on the PV device while using pro tune?
Sorry for my English
Thanks
Sarhan
Yes, you can monitor front and/or rear AFR when you've got the wide band kit.
Quote from: Sarhan on June 15, 2014, 02:53:49 AM
In my country there is no dyno machine for bikes, am using PV1 and I have did couple of auto tune session, the stock O2 wont's gave an correct reading and my concern that I don't know whats my real AFR.
I'm planning to buy AT-110 auto tune pro kit, Just want to know if i will be able to see the AFR on the PV device while using pro tune?
Sorry for my English
Thanks
Sarhan
Sarhan,
i've just started using the AT-100 with the PV. I'm tuning a 2004 without factory O2 sensors. the ability to see the AFR responses has been extremely helpful in identifying potential problem areas, especially associating high engine temperature and lean conditions under certain MAP and RPMs, and making adjustments as needed. I could not auto tune without the AT-100, but due to the modifications on the bike, it would have been very difficult to fix these issues with only stock sensors, if I had them. I highly recommend the AT-100 kit to anyone tuning a stage II or above modified bike.
Thank you Coug45/Aswracing
I hope the kit will help me with the latest modification that i did on my 110 engine, I have installed GMR577's, GMR lifers kit, GMR push rods, jackpot XXX, K&N replacement filter, also HPI58TP is in the way.
As there is no dyno in Bahrain the only way to check the performance is to race (quarter mile) with one of my friends who got goldwing F6B, before i did any upgrades the race was nick to nick at the finish line, after the upgrades with couple of auto tune session I blow off him from start (i know its stupid way to check the performance).
Hope the kit will help to rectify the weakness points
Ok guys got a dumb question concerning the PV tuner . If i modify a map using my laptop how to i download the map from the laptop to the PV unit ? Reason i ask as i will soon be taking my friends bike down to nearest dyno to check AFR and power output , they only use TTS at their shop so any changes made to the map we need to be done by me . Thanks for any help
Quote from: 2006FXDCI on June 17, 2014, 10:10:50 AM
Ok guys got a dumb question concerning the PV tuner . If i modify a map using my laptop how to i download the map from the laptop to the PV unit ? Reason i ask as i will soon be taking my friends bike down to nearest dyno to check AFR and power output , they only use TTS at their shop so any changes made to the map we need to be done by me . Thanks for any help
Plug PV to your lap top, open a session of WinPV, click Get tune,this will put your map on the screen, then you can make your changes, then click file, and save as, then name the file, click save.
Then open the newly named map in WinPV and click send tune, you will have to save it to a slot, then you are ready to put the PV back on the bike and load the tune.
Durwood , thanks a million !
Can anyone explain this little more, on PV, vehicle tools there is an opetion to reset the fuel trim and idle trim, when do I need to rest both options and dose resetting these values after reflashing the ECM will affect the the tune?
Thanks in advance
Sarhan
You will be asked to reset the fuel trims when flashing the ecm and its not a bad idea to reset them every time but if the adaptive fuel is turned off then its not a bit deal. The idle trim helps when a bigger throttle body/ motor build is installed or if an air leak has been fixed.
My understanding was anytime you made a change to the VE or AFR you should do a reset.
Quote from: delta on November 19, 2014, 09:51:36 AM
My understanding was anytime you made a change to the VE or AFR you should do a reset.
👍👍
Bob
Side tracking - but yet another PV question.
Can I change/reset my original map in my PV , which was flashed from my ECM?
Secondly , I have a SE base map. Is the a way I can download it into my PV?
Quote from: Sunny Jim on November 20, 2014, 10:50:33 PMCan I change/reset my original map in my PV
absolutely
Quote from: Sunny Jim on November 20, 2014, 10:50:33 PMwhich was flashed from my ECM?
not sure what you mean here
Quote from: Sunny Jim on November 20, 2014, 10:50:33 PMSecondly , I have a SE base map. Is the a way I can download it into my PV?
why would you want to? Tel us your build and we'll give you an idea of what PV base map to start with.
Good ol' 120r in a streetglide. I have raved about it on HTT for a while now!
yikes.. S&S has a handful of maps on their site for 124" which should get you in the ball-park.
On good advice and info from Steve- GMR, I am running the appropriate 120r map from SE. I have only yesterday got my PV up and running. I will do some ATs this week. A few more miles , then heads off and cams. Some often pro's here have been very helpful. Thanks to all!
Yes you can tune the screamin eagle cal with a powervision.
Quote from: Sunny Jim on November 24, 2014, 06:24:49 AM
On good advice and info from Steve- GMR, I am running the appropriate 120r map from SE. I have only yesterday got my PV up and running. I will do some ATs this week. A few more miles , then heads off and cams. Some often pro's here have been very helpful. Thanks to all!
Keep us informed on that, and the progress you make.
so your say if i hook the PV up and wide bands in i can download the SERT map and it fill in the VE and simple jsut copy and paste on the labtop?
You can tune off of whatever map is in the ecm if you want. So if you have a cal from SE in your ecm then yes you can tune with it.
Thanks, i been using WEGO IIID with TTS and SERT build and then swapping and doing timing runs very time consuming vs PV
Now I use PV and the wideband kit to tune sert cals and vrods with sepst with the old PV log tuner program, then copy paste.
do you have link to download the old PV data logger off hand? ive never had good lucky data logging with PV but there been several update since i last tryed
Quote from: joe_lyons on November 27, 2014, 11:47:31 AM
Now I use PV and the wideband kit to tune sert cals and vrods with sepst with the old PV log tuner program, then copy paste.
I think you missed the (damn), ahead of vrods. :hyst: Mellowing, are we?
Ron
Damn vrods
If I have both the wide band (AT Pro) and the stock narrow band installed and I set the AT to Pro does it disable the narrow band (basic) until I go back and enable it or do I have to unhook the narrow band sensors ?
Thanks,
SR
Pro sets the afr table to 13 which shuts off the NB. When the flash is flashed back in then it reverts to the orig. Settings but the ve numbers are altered and or ign. If you enabled it.
It will use both if you have the ability to do so (dual bungs) and will provide for better street tuning results. setup to run your auto-tune pro then when you're happy, flash your ECM and go back to using only the narrowband sensors.
**EDIT**
let me clarify.. leave them both hooked up. When in AT-Pro mode it will only populate data using the WB sensor data. Then when you're done and the WB sensors removed, it will revert back to using the closed loop sensors so nothing for you to do other than hook up your WB sensors, set it to AT-Pro, as Joe stated above it will disable the closed loop sensors, tune your open loop areas, then it will go back to closed loop when you're done.
I do the narrow band first up to say 70-80kpa because it will change live. Then continue the trends from 70->100 and then use wide bands. It is interesting how the sensors will see different signals where they are located.
So to go back to narrow band I have to remove the wide band or just go back to AT and choose basic ?
Thanks a lot
SR
correct. as Joe stated though.. do your closed loop tuning first then your open loop.
By correct you mean I have to remove the WB or just go back AT and choose basic ? Thanks
You can leave the wide bands hooked up if you want. You can monitor afterwards if you wish.
Choosing basic or pro tuning just sets the afr table to the predetermined and then sets the data tables to record. There is a few other things but that's the main points.
Thanks, I have a lot to learn on this thing but it's pretty cool.
Does it hurt the sensors to leave them in while disabled ?
Kevin , from what ive gathered it is best to remove the AT wide bands after tuning is done . Not much reason to have them in the exhaust path doing nothing . Probably shortens their life span as well .
Quote from: 2006FXDCI on December 14, 2014, 10:12:06 AM
Kevin , from what ive gathered it is best to remove the AT wide bands after tuning is done . Not much reason to have them in the exhaust path doing nothing . Probably shortens their life span as well .
:up: :up:
not cheap to replace them if you need them later for further tuning @ roughly $80 to $100 each.
Thanks.
Josh hope that AT is working out.
Okay, I am very seriously thinking about going from my black box TTS to the PV-1. Right now my TTS tune is very very close to where I would say I have adjusted all tables where They need to be. it,however is NOT a dyno tune but a road tune with a lot of hours.
My question: is it worth me taking every ounce of data and transferring into a winpep (I think that's the name of the program) tune or just ask around for a base tune that will get me close?
total waste of time IMO. There are lovers and haters of both devices. You're not going to get any better tune with PV than you will with TTS just more gadgets. Simple fact of the matter is they both do the same thing, just in a different way.
I get that the end result will be the same but at least I wont have more cords on my bike than a patient on life support.... TTS module, computer,remote 7" viewer, power cord to laptop for long runs. Or I can make one clean install....
you could always contact TTS and ask to upgrade your black box to a blue VCI. This one has flight recorder abilities where no screen is required at all. Set it and ride it for days if you'd like. then come back and compile those days worth of riding data into your new map.
Quote from: UltraNutZ on January 11, 2015, 08:02:27 AM
you could always contact TTS and ask to upgrade your black box to a blue VCI. This one has flight recorder abilities where no screen is required at all. Set it and ride it for days if you'd like. then come back and compile those days worth of riding data into your new map.
AFAIK, they decided not to offer any upgrade path.
yeah Steve stopped that a while back but I would be inclined to think that if you call them up and ask them about it and they "understand" your intention of moving away from TTS altogether they might very well do something for you. Who knows.. definitely worth a phone call.
I did think about that and may still do it. It is however a bit frustrating that their hardware seems to become "dated" so quickly.
My motor was dyno-tuned using TTS several years ago. When the PV came out, I took every cell in every table in my TTS and copied them in to the cells in my PV. Some of the cells don't match, I had to blend them in. But upon completion, I had a tune that needed very little tweaking.
It was a fun exercise.
Ken
Quote from: UltraNutZ on January 11, 2015, 08:12:06 AM
yeah Steve stopped that a while back but I would be inclined to think that if you call them up and ask them about it and they "understand" your intention of moving away from TTS altogether they might very well do something for you. Who knows.. definitely worth a phone call.
You may be thinking of the upgrade from the old Sert to a Mastertune. The hardware on the blue box is different so it's not upgradable, only replaceable. At least that is my understanding.
yes sir you're correct that's what I'm referring to the SERT to MT. And your understanding is also correct on upgrade vs replace. my bad for not clarifying that.
When I get a new base map. Should I set my desired afr settings on the table before I auto tune or after I auto tune?
Auto tune will set it to its own predetermined value. Then then done it reverts back to what you command it to be.
Quote from: joe_lyons on January 28, 2015, 05:58:10 AM
Auto tune will set it to its own predetermined value. Then then done it reverts back to what you command it to be.
Thank you sir
The map I am running now is set for 8 degree angle injectors. When I bought the bike new I had an issue with stalling and the dealership replaced my injectors with 27709-06a 25 degree angle injectors. What setting would be appropriate to change my fuel injector setting to on my map? I ahev no idea what these flow to rectify it before I auto tune the base map for my newly built motor. The rest of the stuff is accurate in my base map (cams, displacement, exhaust). Do they flow any different in volusme that the 8's?
Nevermind. Figured it out and they flow the same apparently
Another stupid question
When working on timing with AT PRO dose the system pull timing only or it also may advance the timing? and based on what the system will adjust the timing (detonation/knock) or something else
Thanks
Only pull timing. Do remember that timing needs are different with different air fuel ratios. So if you use AT pro and it sets the afr to 13 then when your done and the afr table resets to whatever you have it set to then the timing needs are different as different loads and afr require different timing. So just because it doesn't pull timing at 70 kpa in AT pro set at 13 afr does not mean the when at 13.8-14.7 that it won't need timing pulled out. Did this help?
Quote from: Sunny Jim on November 20, 2014, 10:50:33 PM
Side tracking - but yet another PV question.
Can I change/reset my original map in my PV , which was flashed from my ECM?
Secondly , I have a SE base map. Is the a way I can download it into my PV?
Not sure i'm getting the ?'s but I think I am.
The Vision has the ability to extract the current MAP in the ECM. So if the MAP that is currently in your ECM is stock then YES, you can extract it and make changes to it.
The SE Map can be downloaded into the PV from a bike that has the SE MAP flashed into it. But if you just want to take an SE MAP and import it into PV it is not possible (that I know of) without being in a bike first. You could Flash the SE MAP into a bike with a SEPST then pull it out of that bike with the Vision though.
Quote from: joe_lyons on February 09, 2015, 07:27:00 AM
Only pull timing. Do remember that timing needs are different with different air fuel ratios. So if you use AT pro and it sets the afr to 13 then when your done and the afr table resets to whatever you have it set to then the timing needs are different as different loads and afr require different timing. So just because it doesn't pull timing at 70 kpa in AT pro set at 13 afr does not mean the when at 13.8-14.7 that it won't need timing pulled out. Did this help?
Yes thank you.. manual inputs needed
you could always grab the SE cal you're starting with and copy/paste the values into the corresponding tables on the PV cal..
Quote from: UltraNutZ on February 09, 2015, 11:27:31 AM
you could always grab the SE cal you're starting with and copy/paste the values into the corresponding tables on the PV cal..
I would bump up the CI from what ever you have by at least 8 CI min
Another question
Can PV with AT100 reads AFR on a bike that not looked to PV (not married), let's say that you would like to diagnose the bike and see where the actual AFR?
Thanks
Yes it can read and record.
Quote from: Sarhan on February 28, 2015, 07:38:54 AM
Another question
Can PV with AT100 reads AFR on a bike that not looked to PV (not married), let's say that you would like to diagnose the bike and see where the actual AFR?
Thanks
Yes, but you need a Y splitter for power to the AT-100 and maybe a longer cord that connects it to the Vision.
Quote from: hrdtail78 on February 28, 2015, 07:50:15 AM
Quote from: Sarhan on February 28, 2015, 07:38:54 AM
Another question
Can PV with AT100 reads AFR on a bike that not looked to PV (not married), let's say that you would like to diagnose the bike and see where the actual AFR?
Thanks
Yes, but you need a Y splitter for power to the AT-100 and maybe a longer cord that connects it to the Vision.
All required cabls are available ... Thanks
For those of you wanting to view power vision logs download this power core software and you can view logs. http://www.powercommander.com/downloads/Support-Released/Dyno-Software-Firmware-Other/Software/Dynojet%20Power%20Core%20Setup%20v1.7.5449.19123.exe
A new version of WinPV is available, 2.0.16.
Any idea of the evolutions? I couldn't find the change log...
The update does not concern firmware, winpv and database. So what does it concern ?
:scratch:
The response I got from my DJ contact is below but I doubt this is all there is to it. :scratch:
"Todd,
The newest software adds the feature to be able to purchase tune license credits online, via the Get License button."
The obvious part is the new "Get Licence" button...
What else?
Fast flash. At the send tune screen.
i saw that too but wasn't 100% sure if that was with this latest update as I questioned DJ and they are still telling me the only thing that's changed was the "Get License" option.
;)
Dose fast flash reset the fuel while flushing ECM?
Quote from: joe_lyons on March 17, 2015, 01:20:39 PM
Fast flash. At the send tune screen.
👍👍 Prolly only updates the changes rather than the whole cal?
Bob
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2wogj3lcbgrh78s/VID_20150221_115619293.mp4?dl=0
Thanks Joe. Looks like the feature eliminate the circle jerk of having to manually disconnecting the cable from the display dongle then rebooting the dongle then flash the ECM?
Bob
Quote from: FLTRI on April 05, 2015, 10:45:46 PM
Thanks Joe. Looks like the feature eliminate the circle jerk of having to manually disconnecting the cable from the display dongle then rebooting the dongle then flash the ECM?
Bob
Yes it does.
Quote from: Sarhan on April 05, 2015, 11:46:49 AM
Dose fast flash reset the fuel while flushing ECM?
No it does not.
I've been on hold for thirty minutes trying to get through to find out how to send you my map for the IVO & IVC to be reset. What's the secret to sending an email?
They have it but it is not released as of yet to everyone. If you wish you can have dynojet redo your map tooth figures to match your cams.
Quote from: waskier01 on April 09, 2015, 01:19:19 PM
I've been on hold for thirty minutes trying to get through to find out how to send you my map for the IVO & IVC to be reset. What's the secret to sending an email?
They have it but it is not released as of yet to everyone. If you wish you can have dynojet redo your map tooth figures to match your cams.
This is true.
Quote from: waskier01 on April 09, 2015, 01:19:19 PM
I've been on hold for thirty minutes trying to get through to find out how to send you my map for the IVO & IVC to be reset. What's the secret to sending an email?
They have it but it is not released as of yet to everyone. If you wish you can have dynojet redo your map tooth figures to match your cams.
??? it is already set up in the map we sent you this morning.
The notes in the email inferred it was a generic 107 map.
Tuning out 2200 rpm decel popping? Ve tables, decel enleanment? I've over thought this now I'm having a senior moment. 2013 ST Slim, K&n and Rush (awesome) slip ons with 1 3/4 baffles. I've ran a couple auto tunes it still has an inconsistent decel pop at 2200 rpm. Bike runs good otherwise.
Quote from: Rokinrider on April 11, 2015, 06:09:43 AM
Tuning out 2200 rpm decel popping? Ve tables, decel enleanment? I've over thought this now I'm having a senior moment. 2013 ST Slim, K&n and Rush (awesome) slip ons with 1 3/4 baffles. I've ran a couple auto tunes it still has an inconsistent decel pop at 2200 rpm. Bike runs good otherwise.
Please post map
The file with the tune or the VE tables? I'll give it a try. Thanks
The complete map that you are using
I think I have it..
This is a cal set up for auto tune basic. Do you have one that you have after auto tuning?
I find you will always have poping on decell if closed loop is active on decell.
Thank you for your patience. Try this
How does a guy change that. In the tree under closed loop?? I appreciate your help...
Did you set your whole afr table to 14.3 or did you extract that from the ecm?
Quote from: Rokinrider on April 11, 2015, 09:00:28 AM
How does a guy change that. In the tree under closed loop?? I appreciate your help...
The popping might go away once you revert the map back to the normal fuel table. In auto tune setting it will be lean in the decel area. Popping is best resolved after tuning if needed and yes in the air fuel ratio table by fattening up the lambda in the pop zone.
Ron
Quote from: rbabos on April 11, 2015, 09:22:37 AM
Quote from: Rokinrider on April 11, 2015, 09:00:28 AM
How does a guy change that. In the tree under closed loop?? I appreciate your help...
The popping might go away once you revert the map back to the normal fuel table. In auto tune setting it will be lean in the decel area. Popping is best resolved after tuning if needed and yes in the air fuel ratio table by fattening up the lambda in the pop zone.
Ron
I see the opposite as the sensors see the fresh charge from the outside and richen up the mix as it is. You can see this when the VE numbers are larger in the decell TP/MAP than those above it. To pop you have to have fuel burning into the pipe. So if there is little to no fuel then there should be little to no pop.
Quote from: Rokinrider on April 11, 2015, 09:00:28 AM
How does a guy change that. In the tree under closed loop?? I appreciate your help...
Have you watched the how to videos on the dynojet website for doing Basic auto tune?
extracted from the ECM. I have made no changes, I'm to new to this, I'm a carb ol fart.
I did watch the videos, did I miss something or should I go through it again?
Don't worry about extracting the cal out of the ecm. When done auto tuning you will click the export learned and then you will pick a spot in one of the 8 slots to put it. That is the cal you need to run when done and see if there is still more pop. It will probably continue to pop with the cal you have in it as it is for basic auto tuning.
It takes 3 things to get a trailing throttle popping. Raw (unburned fuel) in the exhaust, oxygen front somewhere and heat/flaim.
The raw fuel can be from way too fat or from a lean misfire.
The oxygen can be from exhaust leak or a lean misfire or I guess a fat misfire but that is rare.
The heat can be from late ignition timing, like the anti lag turbo stuff, flaim from the other cylinder or I guess a hot exhaust tubing. I never really tested that.
Google turbo antilag rally car for lots of info. They do this on purpose.
Andy
Will do, Thanks Joe. I'm learning and having fun at the same time!
Quote from: joe_lyons on April 11, 2015, 09:25:56 AM
Quote from: rbabos on April 11, 2015, 09:22:37 AM
Quote from: Rokinrider on April 11, 2015, 09:00:28 AM
How does a guy change that. In the tree under closed loop?? I appreciate your help...
The popping might go away once you revert the map back to the normal fuel table. In auto tune setting it will be lean in the decel area. Popping is best resolved after tuning if needed and yes in the air fuel ratio table by fattening up the lambda in the pop zone.
Ron
I see the opposite as the sensors see the fresh charge from the outside and richen up the mix as it is. You can see this when the VE numbers are larger in the decell TP/MAP than those above it. To pop you have to have fuel burning into the pipe. So if there is little to no fuel then there should be little to no pop.
Going either way from the perfect afr that causes popping would work. I've always found going richer more productive, for me at lower rpms. The object is to screw the mixture ratio up so it won't ignite in the pipe. Lean/rich both work. Leaning could be better at the higher decel rpms. :nix:
Ron
Since we can only affect fuel and timing, those are the tools we have to work with.
Try this for decel pop:
Increase the 20kpa VE column by 20% from 1750-6000. Reduce the decel enleanment by 50%.
If that works or helps you can continue in that direction. That takes care of 80-90% of decel backfiring assuming no exhaust leaks.
If that strategy makes the condition worse go the same way from the base in the opposite direction, decreasing 20kpa VEs by 20% and increase the decel enleanment by 50%.
If those don't take care of the issue you definitely have an exhaust issue causing your pop.
Bob
Quote from: FLTRI on April 11, 2015, 10:07:36 AM
Since we can only affect fuel and timing, those are the tools we have to work with.
Try this for decel pop:
Increase the 20kpa VE column by 20% from 1750-6000. Reduce the decel enleanment by 50%.
If that works or helps you can continue in that direction. That takes care of 80-90% of decel backfiring assuming no exhaust leaks.
If that strategy makes the condition worse go the same way from the base in the opposite direction, decreasing 20kpa VEs by 20% and increase the decel enleanment by 50%.
If those don't take care of the issue you definitely have an exhaust issue causing your pop.
Bob
After disabling auto tune basic.
Quote from: joe_lyons on April 11, 2015, 12:07:10 PM
Quote from: FLTRI on April 11, 2015, 10:07:36 AM
Since we can only affect fuel and timing, those are the tools we have to work with.
Try this for decel pop:
Increase the 20kpa VE column by 20% from 1750-6000. Reduce the decel enleanment by 50%.
If that works or helps you can continue in that direction. That takes care of 80-90% of decel backfiring assuming no exhaust leaks.
If that strategy makes the condition worse go the same way from the base in the opposite direction, decreasing 20kpa VEs by 20% and increase the decel enleanment by 50%.
If those don't take care of the issue you definitely have an exhaust issue causing your pop.
Bob
After disabling auto tune basic.
:up: Yes. For no other reason the timing is upped +4 when disabled. This alone could cure the popping.
Ron
Quote from: rbabos on April 11, 2015, 04:28:38 PM
Quote from: joe_lyons on April 11, 2015, 12:07:10 PM
Quote from: FLTRI on April 11, 2015, 10:07:36 AM
Since we can only affect fuel and timing, those are the tools we have to work with.
Try this for decel pop:
Increase the 20kpa VE column by 20% from 1750-6000. Reduce the decel enleanment by 50%.
If that works or helps you can continue in that direction. That takes care of 80-90% of decel backfiring assuming no exhaust leaks.
If that strategy makes the condition worse go the same way from the base in the opposite direction, decreasing 20kpa VEs by 20% and increase the decel enleanment by 50%.
If those don't take care of the issue you definitely have an exhaust issue causing your pop.
Bob
After disabling auto tune basic.
:up: Yes. For no other reason the timing is upped +4 when disabled. This alone could cure the popping.
Ron
As Joe mentioned when calibration is in autotune state the decel fueling is driven rich or lean depending on how the exhaust presents O2 to the sensors. Reversion for,example.
Generally decel popping is extinguished by increasing decel fueling.
This, however must be done AFTER autotune has been accomplished and the calibration returned to normal run state.
If decel popping can only be reduced by removing fuel the exhaust system is exacerbating the issue. ie: early FLH y-pipe and drag pipes being worse case.
Bob
Is it possible to lock up the MAP by PV to avoid plying/changing anything on the MAP by anyone even the bike owner?
Thanks
Quote from: Sarhan on September 07, 2015, 02:51:34 PM
Is it possible to lock up the MAP by PV to avoid plying/changing anything on the MAP by anyone even the bike owner?
Thanks
They used to have that but then I guess it wasn't a popular feature and they did away with it. You might be able to ask Dyno yet if they can do it for you but I don't know for sure.
Quote from: joe_lyons on September 07, 2015, 02:57:07 PM
Quote from: Sarhan on September 07, 2015, 02:51:34 PM
Is it possible to lock up the MAP by PV to avoid plying/changing anything on the MAP by anyone even the bike owner?
Thanks
They used to have that but then I guess it wasn't a popular feature and they did away with it. You might be able to ask Dyno yet if they can do it for you but I don't know for sure.
Thanks Joe
:beer:Joe
Whats the longevity of the Powervision?
How many issues with the display.
anyone running the PV on the Bike all the time. I would like to monitor AFR real time while I ride
I would like to run it , but if the display starts having issues after a few years I may reconsider.
Whats the expected longevity? Fuel Motto has a nice 2 year warranty.
But I would hope to get longer then 2 years out of one before I have to replace it or repair it. (Using it on the Bike when ever I ride) , if they even do that
I've had mine on my bike for 4 years. I use mine as my speedo and it has been through most of the elements. No issues.
as I answered on another forum...
The Power Vision is a very robust unit. We have many thousands of them in the field and I can count on one hand the number we have warrantied ever. We have been using the same unit in house in the dyno room day in-day out with hundreds of tune licenses married to it since 2011, this unit has been "well used" and still works perfectly. If anyone has a PV unit they have purchased from Fuel Moto with any kind of issues even if it is out of warranty in most cases we can take care of it, the only exception is if there is physical damage such as if it had been dropped or if the screen is damaged. (like the unit that was sent in non-functional that had dog bites on the screen)
I had my original PV die spontaneously at about 2yrs 2 months... No warning at all. Working, then stopped.
Called Jamie, he had me talk to Dynojet directly and they had me do a few diag tests. Dead as a door nail. DJ had me send my unit to them so they could attempt to extract my original tune. Couldn't. I sent them a backup of the my .STK tune they loaded it to a new unit and sent it to me. Easy peasy. Even gave me the option to have black unit vs the chrome if I wanted to change.
:up: Unfortunate situation, but Great support!
Quote from: rageglide on September 22, 2015, 02:03:55 PM
I had my original PV die spontaneously at about 2yrs 2 months... No warning at all. Working, then stopped.
Called Jamie, he had me talk to Dynojet directly and they had me do a few diag tests. Dead as a door nail. DJ had me send my unit to them so they could attempt to extract my original tune. Couldn't. I sent them a backup of the my .STK tune they loaded it to a new unit and sent it to me. Easy peasy. Even gave me the option to have black unit vs the chrome if I wanted to change.
:up: Unfortunate situation, but Great support!
Thanks
I am still gathering data
But it sounds like if I have a prob Fuel Motto will help resolve it, Unless a dog chewed the screen :cry:
Dj has never been a issue warranty wise. We had two PV that where having trouble. Connection issues that was a hit or miss deal. DJ took care of it no issues. So do not worry about where you buy as it does not effect warranty. Direct to the company and they had me new units ASAP. :up:
Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on September 22, 2015, 03:44:40 PM
Dj has never been a issue warranty wise. We had two PV that where having trouble. Connection issues that was a hit or miss deal. DJ took care of it no issues. So do not worry about where you buy as it does not effect warranty. Direct to the company and they had me new units ASAP. :up:
Good to hear that DJ stands behind the product
Sorry to hear that you had issues with 2 units
That does concern me some, But it may be worth the roll of the proverbial dice so to say
I will def buy from Jamie and Fuel Moto
I like supporting the vendors that support us
Quote from: Makdaddy on September 22, 2015, 04:04:49 PM
Sorry to hear that you had issues with 2 units
That does concern me some, But it may be worth the roll of the proverbial dice so to say
Your concerned over 2 units with problems out of how many GMR has sold? I wouldn't be the least bit concerned. By the way GMR is also a forum sponsor.
while checking out the quick tune feature of my PV tuner while connected to my bike I noticed that heated o2 was set to on. my bike is an 09 ultra that does not have those so I unchecked that setting. my question is what affect could that have had on the bike. it seems to run fine although a little hot .
I did not post to make a point of I had a failure.. I do not know what the % of acceptable failure rate that DJ has nor do I care.
No way that you will not have units that fail.
My point was yes it can happen, Yes DJ will take care of you .
I have accidentally dropped mine and the shop Power vision multiple times and they have fared much better than any cell phone I've ever dropped. My youngest son also colored on the screen with marker and crayon and all cleaned up and works just fine.
Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on September 23, 2015, 06:53:16 AM
I did not post to make a point of I had a failure.. I do not know what the % of acceptable failure rate that DJ has nor do I care.
No way that you will not have units that fail.
My point was yes it can happen, Yes DJ will take care of you .
Thanks I was not aware of you being a vendor, So yes I may have taken it as you personally having 2 failures
But I understand now.
On another note
Glad to have found your product page
I will def be getting the CompenSaver when I do my build over the winter
Lot's of good info in this thread so I thought I might bump it back for those that may have missed it.
Quote from: rageglide on September 22, 2015, 02:03:55 PM
I had my original PV die spontaneously at about 2yrs 2 months... No warning at all. Working, then stopped.
Called Jamie, he had me talk to Dynojet directly and they had me do a few diag tests. Dead as a door nail. DJ had me send my unit to them so they could attempt to extract my original tune. Couldn't. I sent them a backup of the my .STK tune they loaded it to a new unit and sent it to me. Easy peasy. Even gave me the option to have black unit vs the chrome if I wanted to change.
:up: Unfortunate situation, but Great support!
Couldn't you just extract the existing PV tune from the ecm, save it to WinPv, then load it back into the unit? After you get a new PV that is.
Ron
Hey Ron, I think DJ likes to do what they can to help insure a custom tune isn't lost. I had backups so it wasn't an issue for me.
To your question specifically, I'm not sure how any common user would be able to extract a tune from the ECM using the standard WinPV software without a working PV unit. Remember, my PV was a brick, totally dead, no OS function at all. No way to use it as the interface (dongle) in between the ECM and my laptop.
Providing my .stk tune to Dynojet allowed them to "clone" my dead PV. When I connected the new unit it was in a recovery mode. It validated it was paired to the correct ECM and that was about it.
Here's what Stan at DJ said:
" There are some other possible considerations you may want to take into account when installing the new unit on your bike. The instructions on loading the stock tune back into your ECM prior to marrying the new unit to the bike will delete your existing tune. If that tune is a custom one you may not want to lose it by reloading the stock calibration. If you are just using one of our pre developed tunes then you can just reload whatever tune you are using. If it is a custom tune then disregard the enclosed instructions and just marry the unit to the bike which will retain that tune as your original one and if you ever need the stock calibration you have it backed up on your computer."
Bob
You can pull and STK file from the bike without the PV being married. In fact, you have to do this to get an add on license. So I don't see why you could not recover the map from the ECM.
I wasn't asked to pull the map from the ECM. There was no need for me to do it.
I am aware an unmarried PV unit would be able to pull a .stk tune from the ECM, that's how they marry. But I was already running custom tunes. Maybe that presents a problem for a new PV unit when marrying? :idunno:
When you marry a new PV it takes a mirror image of the ECM binary whether this is the OEM calibration or otherwise. This tune is saved in memory permanantly on the PV device as the Original Tune. You can use any PV to read any Delphi ECM, it does not need to be married however you can only convert the specific reads to .pvt viewable/editable format on the bike the PV is married/licensed to.
Just finished my build 2011 Fatboy bolt- on 110 with later 103/ACR worked heads T-man 625 cams 10.6 comp
DJ sent me start map,(since dynoed) but problem is on win PV drop down there is no ACR on/off function under limits & switches
Need them working to save battery /starter in the long term
My UK DJ guy says my map (a 241 strategy?) cannot have this feature added nor my values transferred, only to another 241 which all have no ACR function, according to DJ US !
Is this true, find it hard to believe their software people cannot do this.
Bit gutted to say the least
Quote from: yobtaf103 on July 08, 2016, 02:09:27 AM
Just finished my build 2011 Fatboy bolt- on 110 with later 103/ACR worked heads T-man 625 cams 10.6 comp
DJ sent me start map,(since dynoed) but problem is on win PV drop down there is no ACR on/off function under limits & switches
Need them working to save battery /starter in the long term
My UK DJ guy says my map (a 241 strategy?) cannot have this feature added nor my values transferred, only to another 241 which all have no ACR function, according to DJ US !
Is this true, find it hard to believe their software people cannot do this.
Bit gutted to say the least
ACR is in the strategy 241 definitions however it is not a WinPv tune tune item. To enable or disable ACR's you will use Quick Tune with your PV device. Go to Program Vehicle>Quick Tune> under the second tab locate "ACR">check the box to enable.
Jamie, your comment on any PV can read any ECM - if this is the case, and if you are running a PV that is not married to your ECM, can you still data log on you gauges setting and download that information on HD megalog viewer?
Quote from: Sunny Jim on July 08, 2016, 07:37:41 AM
Jamie, your comment on any PV can read any ECM - if this is the case, and if you are running a PV that is not married to your ECM, can you still data log on you gauges setting and download that information on HD megalog viewer?
Yes
:beer: cheers
Quote from: Sunny Jim on July 08, 2016, 07:37:41 AM
Jamie, your comment on any PV can read any ECM - if this is the case, and if you are running a PV that is not married to your ECM, can you still data log on you gauges setting and download that information on HD megalog viewer?
Yes, absolutely. We use a shop Power Vision as a monitor/logging device on the dyno for a wide range of applications; you can monitor/log all of the avail ECM channels, reset adaptive fuel & idle trims, read/clear DTC's, essentially the only thing you cannot do with a non-married/licensed unit is write to the ECM.
Quote from: Jamie Long on July 08, 2016, 07:30:25 AM
Quote from: yobtaf103 on July 08, 2016, 02:09:27 AM
Just finished my build 2011 Fatboy bolt- on 110 with later 103/ACR worked heads T-man 625 cams 10.6 comp
DJ sent me start map,(since dynoed) but problem is on win PV drop down there is no ACR on/off function under limits & switches
Need them working to save battery /starter in the long term
My UK DJ guy says my map (a 241 strategy?) cannot have this feature added nor my values transferred, only to another 241 which all have no ACR function, according to DJ US !
Is this true, find it hard to believe their software people cannot do this.
Bit gutted to say the least
ACR is in the strategy 241 definitions however it is not a WinPv tune tune item. To enable or disable ACR's you will use Quick Tune with your PV device. Go to Program Vehicle>Quick Tune> under the second tab locate "ACR">check the box to enable.
Thanks Jamie